[Rogue] DPS Spreadsheet - Page 20

Trazhenko · 08/01/07, 3:39 PM

I hesitate to draw any conclusions about sustained DPS from that parse, and here's why:

Bloodlust lasts 40 seconds. The fight lasted 170 seconds, and he gained bloodlust 3 times.

Urraca · 08/01/07, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Trazhenko

I hesitate to draw any conclusions about sustained DPS from that parse, and here's why:

Bloodlust lasts 40 seconds. The fight lasted 170 seconds, and he gained bloodlust 3 times.

Yes, that was basically a follow up question of mine. Like I prefaced, I know our guild spoils the melee with multiple blood lusts. I'm not quite sure how bloodlust is modeled on the sheet, does it just add an averaged haste rating? Does clicking the box just give it to you for the whole fight (therefore having multiple lusts shouldn't be an issue)?

EDIT: having said that, I left out that Teron's armor is on the low side and is pretty squishy (still not squishy enough to use eviscerate though)

Trazhenko · 08/01/07, 4:18 PM

I believe the sheet gives you the average haste that you would get if the 40 seconds were distributed across the 10 minute cooldown of the ability. (40/600) * 30% = 2% haste overall. The Bloodlust line has 21 in the haste rating column, so I think that's what it's doing.

If you take the data from the parse, (120/170) * 30% = 21.18% haste, which is over 10 times as powerful as the spreadsheet version of 40 seconds over 10 minutes.

Urraca · 08/01/07, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Trazhenko

I believe the sheet gives you the average haste that you would get if the 40 seconds were distributed across the 10 minute cooldown of the ability. (40/600) * 30% = 2% haste overall. The Bloodlust line has 21 in the haste rating column, so I think that's what it's doing.

If you take the data from the parse, (120/170) * 30% = 21.18% haste, which is over 10 times as powerful as the spreadsheet version of 40 seconds over 10 minutes.

Actually going back and looking at the log you see this:

"Present from 03:14'38 to 03:18'28 (100 %)"

Which is equal to: 230 seconds, not 170, and yields a haste value of about: 15.65% (still a lot more powerful then it appears on the spreadsheet.) So I guess that does somewhat account for the gross under-estimation of the DPS on the sheet somewhat.

Trazhenko · 08/01/07, 4:40 PM

Whoops! I read that as 2 min 50 sec not 3 min 50 sec. 3 bloodlusts is still pretty crazy overpowered in that timeframe though.

Gogge · 08/01/07, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by Urraca

Speaking of Teron, which seems to be the new DPS test fight, I've been seeing some absolutely crazy rogue WWS logs. My guild just got him for the first time 2x weeks ago, and we didn't get a log on it, but I know we spoil the melee and give them multiple blood-lusts etc.

Anyway, this wws log which was just posted in the WWS thread today: Wow Web Stats

A rogue has a sustained DPS of almost 2.3k for the entire fight (with a 10% miss rate). Granted, he does have the legendary MH and 4-piece t6, but what strikes me is his 'lower' +hit and his emphasis on crit. He's currently a sword spec with 30%+ crit unbuffed, and during this WWS he actually used the ashetongue exalted Trinket...which mostly everyone thinks is subpar.

The point that I'm trying to make is that with maxing +hit being the current vogue thing to do, has crit un-deservingly lost it's reputation as a top stat? Putting in his exact gear (and even 'upgrading' with epic gems + more buffs) the spreadsheet DPS still falls well short of the posted data. I understand that the spreadsheet is not entirely accurate, but usually I find it hard to get near the max dps on most fights, not exceed it by a lot.

In a completely subjective observation with absolutely zero data to back up my claims, is there a a saturation point where adding more and more +hit adds very little additional utility (especially with +haste and endgame gear bringing crit back near pre-tbc levels)? At the surface it seems to me that there there are 3 tiers of +hit: awful, acceptable, and near maxed which is really just more icing on the cake. Has anyone else noticed any trends like this?

Clicking "configure" and checking "nb" and "%" for "miss" gives me 18 missed swings for a total of 3%, I think the 10% number includes dodges/parries. Afaik crit is still less valuable than hit for classic combat/swords.

Urraca · 08/01/07, 5:07 PM

Yeah, I was quite aware that the 10% included dodges (gorefiend should never ever be parrying your attacks). For rounding purposes, a 10% miss rate would give him an abysmal hit rating of about 160, his gear has him at 225 (according to armory--which is really the wild card and an assumption in this very rough data crunch, since he is now missing gems).

If you say he only had 18 missed swings during that 4 minute fight, it comes out to 4.5 swings per minute missed, which seems negligible at best considering how high his haste had to be and the reason that +hit has grown to the top of the stat charts is due to the addition of combat potency.

Wodahs · 08/01/07, 5:43 PM

Teron is a good dps benchmark, as long as you dont get death.
Wodahs - WWS
I used no haste pots, used a major agi and a fortitude pot, and put up 1808 dps, which is roughly 135 dps higher than the spreadsheet predicted. WOuld love to see numbers with more than 1 bloodlust, to be sure.

Trazhenko · 08/01/07, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by Urraca

...his gear has him at 225 (according to armory--which is really the wild card and an assumption in this very rough data crunch, since he is now missing gems)...

Is this a known bug with armory? I can't imagine a high-end raiding rogue running around with 7 empty gem sockets. The only gems showing up on his gear are his meta and a couple 10AP/7 stam ones. All his yellow and red slots are empty.

Wodahs · 08/01/07, 5:48 PM

Some gems dont show up. Glinting pyrestones dont show up in armory on my gear. However, the hit rating listed is accurate.

Dontmindme · 08/01/07, 8:44 PM

There is one significant change that might account for it...
I believe the new sheet has already taken into account the expected patch changes to extra attacks not proccing off extra attacks.

In short, Sword Spec or Windfury will be significantly undervalued right now.

Telani · 08/02/07, 2:01 AM

Now that someone (Furi from Blood Legion) has both glaives, does anyone have an estimated proc rate or uptime? I'm assuming it's high since it's legendary, but it would be nice to know how much of an upgrade those are.

♦ Kurisu · 08/02/07, 2:17 AM

hmmm according to the WWS i posted in the WWS thread:

Rage:2 Minutes of DPS time and he got 5 procs
Anetheron:3 minutes - 3 procs
Kaz: 2 minutes - 6 procs
Azgalor:3 minutes - 6 procs
Arch 1: 2 minutes - 3 procs
Arch 2: 2 minutes - 6 procs
Arch 3: 5 Minutes - 9 procs
Arch 4(death): 5 minutes - 6 procs

Its pretty safe to assume there isnt an internal cooldown, not sure if it refreshes itself either...

Telani · 08/02/07, 2:34 AM

Originally Posted by Kurisu

hmmm according to the WWS i posted in the WWS thread:

Rage:2 Minutes of DPS time and he got 5 procs
Anetheron:3 minutes - 3 procs
Kaz: 2 minutes - 6 procs
Azgalor:3 minutes - 6 procs
Arch 1: 2 minutes - 3 procs
Arch 2: 2 minutes - 6 procs
Arch 3: 5 Minutes - 9 procs
Arch 4(death): 5 minutes - 6 procs

Its pretty safe to assume there isnt an internal cooldown, not sure if it refreshes itself either...

Gah, didn't see that earlier when I looked. Basically a built in dragonspine with a higher haste rating, that's just crazy.

Kalman · 08/02/07, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by Melnor

Kalman said "we" when referring to the rogue class?! Are you back to playing a rogue now?

Nope. Kalman is, and will probably remain, 62.

And secondary extra attacks (proc on proc) isn't really that big a difference; it increases sword spec's value by ~5%.