[Rogue] DPS Spreadsheet - Page 26

Melnor · 09/11/07, 9:52 AM

I would assume that a lot of macro functionality is missing in a 10 year old version of Excel

Azaziel · 09/11/07, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by nilme

I was a bit shocked about the difference between the gear sheet and the dps sheet when it came to maces. I did some numbers on my gear on both sheets and isolated the problem: dragonmaw/dragonstrike [and I guess drakefist] are heavily undervaluated on this sheet.

Using S2 MH Mace gives me lower dps on live than using dragonmaw. On the sheet the S2MH mace is suggested as a big upgrade, slightly above dragonstrike. On the gear sheet the S2MH mace is a downgrade from dragonmaw, which was not consistent with my experience on live.

Now I checked some of my WWS logs and found that dragonmaw(and, I guess, dragonstrike) proc should be considered as a 2PPM one. I checked several fights and on all of them I had between 2.1 and 2.3 ppm("Haste" procs / fight duration) and I guess that the logs are ignoring the refreshing ones. If my "uptime concept" isn't skewed, that should give the mace 80 permanent haste(212/10secs * 60secs/2ppm), twice as much as what it's given on the sheet.

"Upgrading" the mace makes the sheet result the same as I apreciate on live(dragonmaw > s2 mace) and consistent with the gear sheet(dragonstrike slightly superior to rod of the sun king).

Any other dragon* mace users that can confirm this?

*Edit:If it is of any use, my import/export function works flawlessly. I'm using the spanish version of MSExcel that shares the "." and "," formatting with the german one(ellos'?). I get no errors using it and everything is imported into the proper cell, with no negative dps// #### errors.

Dragonstrike is quite a bit better than S2Mace, yes. I think it will still be a bit better after patch, but with haste nerf it should be closer between them. Not sure if the new sheet already running on the testserver numbers.

nilme · 09/11/07, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Azaziel

Dragonstrike is quite a bit better than S2Mace, yes. I think it will still be a bit better after patch, but with haste nerf it should be closer between them. Not sure if the new sheet already running on the testserver numbers.

All sheets included the haste nerf since the day it was discovered. Changing the haste value to the old one(the live servers value that is) increases the gap even more.
The point of my post was that according to my own tests(unbuffed!) and acording to a different sheet, dragonMAW(not strike!) is better than S2 Mace and I think the sheet does not reflect the power of blacksmithing maces' proc. Just consider it a lesser version of the unnerfed dragonspine: high ppm, no internal cd.

Chaplin · 09/11/07, 3:30 PM

I was wondering if there were any plans to incorporate Shiv spam builds as alternative methods of dps into the spreadsheet. Recently me and another rogue in guild have switched up our normal dps method when fighting mobs that can be poisoned. We use Anesthetic Poison in the off-hand and Deadly Poison in the main hand. Both using Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade in off-hand and Spiteblade in main hand. Both with dual Mongoose. We have found that our dps is substantially increased using the following method.

Cheapshot/Garrote/Other Opener
Slice and Dice
-----------------------------------------
Shiv till 5 pts
Slice and Dice
Shiv till 5 pts
Rupture
Shiv till 5 pts
Envenom
-----------------------------------------
repeat

It's an extraordinarily efficient method and I'd love to see it in the spreadsheet. I've been using the spreadsheet for as long as it's existed. Longer than I can remember. Thanks for all the work that's done on it.

• Vulajin · 09/11/07, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chaplin

We have found that our dps is substantially increased using the following method.

Cheapshot/Garrote/Other Opener
Slice and Dice
-----------------------------------------
Shiv till 5 pts
Slice and Dice
Shiv till 5 pts
Rupture
Shiv till 5 pts
Envenom
-----------------------------------------
repeat

Substantially increased compared to what? In no sense is Shiv going to be better DPE than Sinister Strike, even counting Anesthetic Poison or Instant Poison. Additionally, you don't want to be using a poison on your main hand if there's any chance of having Windfury Totem. And then of course, if you are using Deadly Poison, unless you're Mutilate and using it on both weapons, you don't want to waste it by using Envenom.

In every sense you will be better off running 1s/5r with Sinister Strike.

Stabmaster · 09/11/07, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chaplin

I was wondering if there were any plans to incorporate Shiv spam builds as alternative methods of dps into the spreadsheet. Recently me and another rogue in guild have switched up our normal dps method when fighting mobs that can be poisoned. We use Anesthetic Poison in the off-hand and Deadly Poison in the main hand. Both using Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade in off-hand and Spiteblade in main hand. Both with dual Mongoose. We have found that our dps is substantially increased using the following method.

I'm sorry, but if by switching to Shiv spam your DPS increased, you were doing something horribly wrong before. Shiv spam is awful.

And yes, I tried it. Any of the other generally-recommended raid specs destroy Shiv spam.

rj · 09/11/07, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by Vulajin

In every sense you will be better off running 1s/5r with Sinister Strike.

Well, the current spreadsheet tells me 2s/5r is better for me with 4pc netherblade. I replace a piece of netherblade with comparable gear in the spreadsheet so I no longer have 4pc bonus (such as Skulkers Greaves instead of NB legs) and the spreadsheet then tells me to use 1s/5r.

Seems a bit odd to me.

• Vulajin · 09/11/07, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by rj

Well, the current spreadsheet tells me 2s/5r is better for me with 4pc netherblade. I replace a piece of netherblade with comparable gear in the spreadsheet so I no longer have 4pc bonus (such as Skulkers Greaves instead of NB legs) and the spreadsheet then tells me to use 1s/5r.

Seems a bit odd to me.

2s/5r becomes better than 1s/5r eventually. My detailed cycle models put 2s/5r around 10 dps above 1s/5r for my current gear level. I think the 4-piece Netherblade proc also creates some weird effects with cycles that use finishers at 1 CP (since it's possible to "accidentally" go above that 1 CP). However, I'm not sure if the spreadsheet necessarily models that.

Darmoed · 09/11/07, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by Vulajin

2s/5r becomes better than 1s/5r eventually. My detailed cycle models put 2s/5r around 10 dps above 1s/5r for my current gear level. I think the 4-piece Netherblade proc also creates some weird effects with cycles that use finishers at 1 CP (since it's possible to "accidentally" go above that 1 CP). However, I'm not sure if the spreadsheet necessarily models that.

Is there any built in optimization of the compopoint usage?

• Vulajin · 09/11/07, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Darmoed

Is there any built in optimization of the compopoint usage?

I don't understand precisely what you're asking. However, I think you're asking whether the sheet chooses better cycles, or modifies your cycle, based on changes in your combo point generation. The answer to this would be yes. However, the sheet uses a statistical model of cycles, where every finisher is assumed to produce, on average, 0.60 extra combo points if you have 3/3 Ruthlessness, and an additional 0.15 extra if you have 4-piece Netherblade. So the sheet wouldn't necessarily account for the fact that with a 1s/5r and 4-piece Netherblade, you may sometimes end up using 2s instead of 1s.

Latito · 09/11/07, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by rj

Well, the current spreadsheet tells me 2s/5r is better for me with 4pc netherblade. I replace a piece of netherblade with comparable gear in the spreadsheet so I no longer have 4pc bonus (such as Skulkers Greaves instead of NB legs) and the spreadsheet then tells me to use 1s/5r.

Seems a bit odd to me.

Perhaps you also have some hit gems in those Skulker Greaves? Increasing your hit (without passing cap) will increase your energy returns from Combat Potency. 1s/5r is a fairly demanding rotation, perhaps you needed that last bit of energy to be able to, on average, keep SnD up.

Just a possibilty.

tsigo · 09/11/07, 6:52 PM

Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality, despite what the latest version notes say, is still very broken for Sword builds in 2.2.0.12. Equipping it drops buffed DPS from around 1900 to around -1050.

Fugazor · 09/11/07, 8:34 PM

2.2.0.12 keeps crashing for me (using Excel 2003). All I need to do is select Blade of Infamy.

Flailure · 09/11/07, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by tsigo

Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality, despite what the latest version notes say, is still very broken for Sword builds in 2.2.0.12. Equipping it drops buffed DPS from around 1900 to around -1050.

Its something to do with selecting sword in the OH for some reason.

Araniah · 09/11/07, 9:52 PM

Can't seem to get more than the first four fist weapon off hands on the spreadsheet to show up. Not sure what's going on with it.

Ellos · 09/12/07, 5:23 AM

Originally Posted by tsigo

Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality, despite what the latest version notes say, is still very broken for Sword builds in 2.2.0.12. Equipping it drops buffed DPS from around 1900 to around -1050.

The reason is Swordspec. It had been changed and causes somme strange Values in Nextstat, I'll take a look later where the issue is and try to fix it.

Ellos · 09/12/07, 5:29 AM

Originally Posted by Araniah

Can't seem to get more than the first four fist weapon off hands on the spreadsheet to show up. Not sure what's going on with it.

Will be fixt in .13.
A fix value is not a so good idea

Ellos · 09/12/07, 5:32 AM

Originally Posted by Fugazor

2.2.0.12 keeps crashing for me (using Excel 2003). All I need to do is select Blade of Infamy.

got no problems, don't know what the reason could be.

Ellos · 09/12/07, 5:40 AM

Originally Posted by Radmsc

I was just fooling around a bit with the spreadsheet and found the following bug:

When entering both Warglaives of Azzinoth and Windfury as a temporary buff, the dps goes +5500. I think this is not ment to be, is it?

mmh.. not for me, just tested it but I got normal values.
Could you look could be another reason? (maybe Ashtounge and swordspec or something else)

Ellos · 09/12/07, 5:43 AM

Originally Posted by Zurgat

Tried export, and see a potential bug.

Spreadsheet located in: "files/docs/roguedps22012.xls"
Press export.
It then created a file in the folder "files" with the name "docs\RogueDPS_Itemfile.xls", instead of in the folder "files/docs".
So it probably was unable to find that file proper.

mmh.. I've done maybe a typo, will look at this when I change the export again, maybe I can import directly from a old spreadsheet, this would reduce the time by 50%.

Radmsc · 09/12/07, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Ellos

mmh.. not for me, just tested it but I got normal values.
Could you look could be another reason? (maybe Ashtounge and swordspec or something else)

I've replaced all pieces of armor one by one and looked if the bug was still there, I even removed the sword spec to test it, but the immense increase in dps for the windfury buff didn't go away.

Here's a list of armor I've entered when I found the bug, maybe you can figure it out, because I'm clueless:

MH: Warglaive of Azzinoth, mongoose, Deadly poison
OH: Warglaive of Azzinoth, mongoose, Instant poison
Ranged: Arcanite Steam-Pistol
Helm: Cursed Vision of Sargeras, Glyph of Ferocity, Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, Rigid Lionseye
Neck: Choker of Endless Nightmares
Shoulder: Slayer's Shoulderpads, Might of the Scourge, Glinting Pyrestone, Shifting Tanzanite
Cloak: Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape, Greater Agility
Chest: Slayer's Chestguard, Exceptional Stats, 2x Rigid Lionseye, Balanced Shadowsong Amethyst
Bracers: Insidious Bands, Assault, Rigid Lionseye
Gloves: Slayer's Handguards, Superiour Agility, Rigid Lionseye
Belt: Belt of One-Hundred Deaths, 2x Rigid Lionseye
Legs: Slayer's Legguards, Nethercobra Leg Armor, Bold Ornate Ruby
Boots: Shadowmaster's Boots, Dexterity, 2x Glinting Pyrestone
Ring #1: Stormrage Signet Ring
Ring #2: Band of the Eternal Champion
Trinket #1: Dragonspine Trophy
Trinket #2: Warp-Spring Coil

• sp00n · 09/12/07, 7:32 AM

Originally Posted by Radmsc

I've replaced all pieces of armor one by one and looked if the bug was still there, I even removed the sword spec to test it, but the immense increase in dps for the windfury buff didn't go away.

Here's a list of armor I've entered when I found the bug, maybe you can figure it out, because I'm clueless:

MH: Warglaive of Azzinoth, mongoose, Deadly poison
OH: Warglaive of Azzinoth, mongoose, Instant poison
Ranged: Arcanite Steam-Pistol
Helm: Cursed Vision of Sargeras, Glyph of Ferocity, Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, Rigid Lionseye
Neck: Choker of Endless Nightmares
Shoulder: Slayer's Shoulderpads, Might of the Scourge, Glinting Pyrestone, Shifting Tanzanite
Cloak: Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape, Greater Agility
Chest: Slayer's Chestguard, Exceptional Stats, 2x Rigid Lionseye, Balanced Shadowsong Amethyst
Bracers: Insidious Bands, Assault, Rigid Lionseye
Gloves: Slayer's Handguards, Superiour Agility, Rigid Lionseye
Belt: Belt of One-Hundred Deaths, 2x Rigid Lionseye
Legs: Slayer's Legguards, Nethercobra Leg Armor, Bold Ornate Ruby
Boots: Shadowmaster's Boots, Dexterity, 2x Glinting Pyrestone
Ring #1: Stormrage Signet Ring
Ring #2: Band of the Eternal Champion
Trinket #1: Dragonspine Trophy
Trinket #2: Warp-Spring Coil

Hm, just entered these items and it works fine for me.
I see a DPS increase by 577 (32% *cry*) but no unrealistic 5500 DPS.

Radmsc · 09/12/07, 8:05 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Hm, just entered these items and it works fine for me.
I see a DPS increase by 577 (32% *cry*) but no unrealistic 5500 DPS.

Then I'll have a look again if it's something in the buffs or talents.

Ellos · 09/12/07, 9:22 AM

mmh.. had you imported the Equip?
Maybe there had goen something wrong.

Zurgat · 09/12/07, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Ellos

mmh.. not for me, just tested it but I got normal values.
Could you look could be another reason? (maybe Ashtounge and swordspec or something else)

The bug seems to occur mainly with the ashtongue trinket for me.
When downloaded 220.12 already has the trinket selected, so as soon as you select a sword in the mainhand the bug occurs.

It would probably make sense if you had a 220.13 where the bug directly relating to that trinket is fixed we can probably test it further.
Then we can see if that bug no longer occurs, or whether any other situations cause a similar issue. In case it caused an indirect taint to other calculations.