dinesh

I am still confused by what you are doing for Windfury, and now Sanctity Aura.

You appear to just be sticking a value of 1.3 in both cells. For Windfury, as was pointed out by others before me, this cell value should really be "=1+(C108*0.15)", so that it is actually taking into account the number of ranks selected for Improved Weapon Totem, shouldn't it?

Sanctity Aura is shipping with 1.3 pre-entered into the cell, which doesn't really make any sense to me because it is a dropdown field which should allow values of 0 or 1 only, shouldn't it? Selecting one of these, and adjusting the level of Improved Sanctity Aura, seems to behave as expected (i.e. no sanctity aura is identical to a sanctity aura with no points in Imp. SA, because only the improved talent benefits rogues).

 

Ellos

In the Version I uploaded the Sanctity aura had the value 0.
And Windfury the value for windfury is nothing. I switched the Formula to the end of windfury.

I think you have imported your gear from a old version and overwrite the value, so it's 1,3 (And the import function is the reason why I moved the Formula to another cell).

Well, Sanctity aura I don't know why it shows 1.3, it shouldn't do, maybe a import issue.

 

Ellos

Yes, I'm talking about this function (exyctly I mean the sheets Item compare and Gear_Upgrade).

Maybe I'll build in the DPS Upgrade function into the Gear Upgrade sheet and remove only the AEP Upgrade.

I think this sheet is not interessting anymore.

 

kasumifm

thanks

 

dinesh

D'oh, you are exactly right, I imported from an earlier version. My apologies for not thinking the question through before posting. I think you are right, the import must be confusing something when it sets the value for Sanctity Aura when importing from a version that doesn't have that field yet.

Nice job with the change to the import procedure, by the way, it's much more straightforward now. I'm not sure when it changed, I don't see it in your changelog. It took me a couple tried before I realized you don't need the old export file any more, you just import the previous version.

I don't understand what you mean about change the formula to the end of windfury. How are we supposed to use this field now? What values should we be entering into B108? It looks like the field has no effect any more, and just the Improved selection has an effect. Which, now that I think about it, makes sense. I suppose you just need to fix the import function to not bother importing anything for the B108 cell, just C108.

Shouldn't B108 have a 0 or 1 selection for it, though, to indicate whether or not to include the buff? That would make it consistent with all the other fields. Actually, I guess that is done on the weapon temporary enchant cell above. Maybe something like "=IF(mhtemp="Windfury",1,0)" in B108 to at least give the illusion of consistency.

Thanks!

 

Ellos

I changed the import function in this version, and well, I wonder that it makes problem with the new buff, because I'm searching now for the right cell, so there shouldn't be a copy.

I'll see if there are problems.

Windfury havn't become any change you would sense. It's only a change to make no more problems with the import

 

Radmsc

Today I downloaded the newest version of the spreadsheet (2.2.0.13). Now I wanted to fill in my own gear, but at almost every dropdown-menu it only showes "none" together with the item which was already there. Most of the time I select "none" first, then look at the list again and then all the items are there again. This started to get annoying. But after I got to the chest item, it doesn't show anything at all. Any explanation possible on this bug?

 

Ellos

check your options.
Is the "only show DPS Upgrade" Option marked?

 

Makdoh

Lately I've considered speccing "back" to mutilate as our raid progress is not that demanding anyway and I still want to be able to do some PVP. I then composed a build that looks pretty much like this.

Then I noticed that - according to this spreadsheet (.13 version) - I would do less DPS with improved SnD than without it (around 15 less).
Is this a bug or do I miss something important?

 

Radmsc

d'oh, srry :s

Allthough I don't get the point of that option. Can you explain it a bit further please?

 

Stabmaster

The drop-downs will only show items that are DPS upgrades to your current gear, if you have that option checked...

 

Kinesia

Hmmm, but how would you know for _sure_ that they weren't upgrades without selecting them and seeing what the results were?
The spreadsheet seems too complicated for that.
Surely if we already knew that "these items were the only upgrades" then we wouldn't need any other part of the sheet?

 

Kuk

Yes, I neglected to take into account the damage bonus scaling the AP bonus as well. This quite clearly shows that weapon normalisation is not the issue.

This would appear to be the crux of the issue. As has been stated, swords seem to be a strictly better alternative to daggers in every sense. Being that there is no reason to choose to use daggers over swords (beyond having daggers shoved down our throats through itemisation) even in spite of the dearth of swords between Black Morass and Black Temple/Hyjal, we've ended up in the position of one spec being clearly better than any other.

Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, however it calls into question the raison d'etre for dagger spec and the abundance of dagger drops as you progress up the progression path. I think it's fair to say that for guilds reaching SSC and higher, performance takes precedence over preference, and rogues at that level (myself included) using daggers are doing so because they're constrained by drops, and given the choice of swords at the same item level would respec in a heart beat.

I think I liked it better when sword spec reset the swing timer. Back then, sword spec was the spec your grandma could play; you could get decent, if not spectacular DPS. You specced daggers to get the payoff of higher DPS for a little more effort. Every iteration of sword spec since then has seemed to nudge the spec farther ahead, such that now, why bother putting up with the positional requirements of daggers? Am I the only one seeing the disconnect between what is being communicated by the abundance of dagger itemisation and what the mechanics are proving to be the better spec?

 

Cyn

Have the points of the thread Proc Per Minute Mechanics and Haste been considered by the people maintaining this spreadsheet.

This threads seems to contain some very pertinent information, that could have some rather large effects on rogue DPS, yet i haven't seen anyone really mention it at all in this thread.

 

• Vulajin

Note that none of the behavior we've uncovered in that thread is new or changed; rather, we simply misunderstood and misrepresented the game mechanics based on assumptions that things still behaved a certain way.

In other words, actual in-game DPS isn't changed. Spreadsheet DPS estimates do change, but not by a huge amount. I modified my personal DPS spreadsheet to reflect the discoveries in the thread you cited, and my DPS estimate dropped from 1415.02 to 1397.02.

 

Ellos

should be a bug, I'll look at this.

 

Ellos

As already said, when you check this Option the list will only show DPS Upgraded (Depending on your AEP, so you should make a AEP Calculaion after every Item change, or check the Option for AEP to not use the macro).

I've made this in first case for an alternative to the Upgrade Search. But it won't work 100% correct I think, but it could be helping for Itemchoose.

 

Ellos

I've got the AEP, so I've got a DPS Increase Value for 1 stat. With this values I can calculate the DPS for each Item and then compare this with the selected Item. When the DPS is positiv, it'll be an DPS Upgrade.

Thats the reason why you should have to calculate the AEP after each Itemchange (or select the non Macro AEP as I said above)

 

◊ Kalman

More generally, we assumed that behaviors derived from 3 procs (Fiery, Lifestealing, and Crusader) were valid for *all* procs.

As it turned out, we just happened to test with the 3 procs that use a different mechanic.

 

Cyn

I realise that ingame dps wont change, but when this spreadsheet is used to make gear choices that sometimes only differ by a few dps, if it doesn't model game mechanics correctly, it starts to lose it's purpose

 

Zurgat

It's exactly the other way around on mine. If i only use uhit-H75 then it lacks about 4 hit rating compared to my armory.
I can see it shouldnt be added, but if not that, then something else is being calculated wrongly.

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

Ellos

Spreadsheets will nether 100% exactly to the game, because you never now if it's realy right.

 

Lunaviel

I noticed something I could not quite understand, when using the sheet today (latest edition).

As a sword rogue using WF on MH and DP on OH, I would expect 4/5 Vile Poisons (16% more poison damage) to be superior to 4/5 Improved Poisons (8% better chance to apply poison).
The rationale would be that my 1.5s OH would easily keep DP stacked, and the advantage of stacking it slightly faster would be far less than the benefit of DP ticking for 16% more for the entire fight.

However, the spreadsheet shows a difference of about 1.3 DPS in favor of Improved Poisons with my current gear.

Why is this?

 

Chaplin

The people bashing Shiv spam methods need to educate themselves and stop knocking it just for the sake of knocking it. I'm most certainly not in "crappy gear" and have seen a DPS increase with a shiv spam method. I think Shiv Spam vs SS Spam method is more determined by your weaponry than anything else. Different things work for different people. The "you must just suck" or "you must have crappy gear" responses only come across as immature and uneducated.

 

dhegin

Thank you for your in-depth analysis of the shiv-spam method. All your contributing math to help support your method is also appreciated. Please point me in a direction where I can educate myself about shiv-spam and maybe I'll read up on it. You defending it without proof is just as useless as someone bashing it without proof. Please leave the useless posts to the WoW forums, don't bother bringing them here.