Did anyone try to see, if Ruthlessness change affects in any way Slice and Dice ? As a patch notes say that it will only affect melee finishers, however non of the finishers say in their tooltip if they are melee or not. It's pretty obvious that Rupture or Evis/Envenom, as they can be triggered only in melee range. SnD tho can be triggered wherever, thats why I'm getting confused with it.

I don't have access to PTR, can't copy my character there for last few days (always says server too busy). If anyone on PTR may have a time to test that, would be nice to know. If SnD is not triggering Ruthlessness, then it will have a huge impact on our dps.

"Ruthlessness
Slice and Dice still triggers this talent. No change, just stating to silence the confusion about this. Unconfirmed if this is intended or not."

Some rogue posted this on our guild forum.

I believe that little snippit about Ruthlessness about melee finishers was to further emphasize it no longer working with Deadly Throw, which is a ranged finisher.

Would be great of course to see blue confirming on that, good to know however it got tested. Thanks

I assume it will still work with slice and dice as it does now. The patch notes say the following:

Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves. It no longer works with Deadly Throw.

Slice and dice is a melee ability, so I assume it will still work after 2.3

Technically one can be out of melee range of a mob to do SnD...

But yea we are talking about blizzard and we've seen patchnotes before that are somewhat diffuse... so id be surprised if SnD stopped proccing ruthlessness.

Slice and Dice has a 100yrd range so it shouldn't be a melee finisher. Anyway, lets hope blizzard keeps it unlogical as this.

Hi guys, downloaded the spreadsheet acouple of days ago and it has helped me improve my dps somewhat.

Earlier today I noticed something odd while playing around with the talents, checking if I could make som minor adjustments that would improve my dps.

Im currently running a 15/41/5 dagger spec and I noticed that my dps wasent changed at all when I changed the number of talent points in ruthlessness, it didnt matter if I had 1, 2 or 3 points in it, the dps was still the same, the dps only dropped when I put 0 points in it.

I guess that ruthlessness isnt as benifical for combat daggers as it is for swords since I dont use finishers as often, but there still should be a small difference between 1 and 3 points in ruthlessness shouldnt it?

When are you planning to update this spreasheet? I am really eager to see comparisons between S3 - BT weps as well as executioner/mongoose, now that we got some actual data on it.

I am thinking of going fist-sword (both s3 weapons) over my current Infamy/Savagery swords and i would like to have some info on this

I did not see any mention of this in the first thread so I figured I would ask... and see if something should be put in the first thread.

Rogue Gear Spreadsheet

Is another spreadsheet also hosted in the same forum... what is the difference, or are they both the same thing?

Long story short, this spreadsheet is intended for the purpose of telling you how much theoretical DPS you can do with a given combination of gear and talents (and therefore it can also be roughly used to judge the DPS value of various pieces of gear).

The Rogue Gear Spreadsheet you linked is intended for the purpose of weighting different pieces of gear against one another, thus deciding which ones are best. Gear are weighted by the value of the stats they possess given the stats you already have. There is also, of course, an output giving your total theoretical DPS.

Essentially both spreadsheets arose out of similar desires and fulfill similar functions, but they are also distinct.

You should download them both and check them out. Pick whichever one you feel is more accurate, or whichever one you prefer. I don't personally think you can go wrong either way.

Back in time, it may have been true, but nowadays, I'm quite sure that past 30y there is a 'too far away' message.

Added the new S3 weapons and ran some numbers. For the record(and for my gear:P, which is on the neighborhood of 1550dps):
-Upgrading from any S2 MH to any S3 MH increases my dps by 20. For the record upgrading from S2 MH sword to talon of azshara increases my dps by 14, so the new S3 MH sword would be a 6dps increase from talon.
-Upgrading from any S2 OH to any S3 OH increases my dps by 11
-S3 MH Mace is a downgrade from Dragonstrike(-3dps) and an upgrade from Dragonmaw(+11dps)
-The new slow dagger offhand(Mutilator) increases my dps by 5 when upgrading from S3 Shiv(fast dagger offhand) when using mutilate.

So it looks like I'll finish getting the 2 vortices I need and will just buy S3 Mutilator and S3 OH mace so I can keep my weekly respecs from muti(S2 Shanker+S3 Mutilator) to combat maces(Dragonstrike+S3OH) :-)

So last night I picked up Belt of One-Hundred Deaths as I saw it to be an upgrade to the Belt of Deep Shadow, and no other rogues bidded on it thinking it was crap.

I'm just wondering, what does 25 sword skill actually do? I see the slight increase in crit chance, but does it lower the hit cap or give you hit chance or something? Since I lose about 18 hit switching to it, and gain only 5 attack power and 0.17% crit chance. Yet the spreadsheet calculates it to be a 10 dps increase (my hit is low now, 241).

And also, from what you've seen on the PTR, will Expertise rating do more than just reduce dodge and parry of the bosses?

Thanks for any help you can give :>

The 25 weapon skill rating translate to 6 weapon skill, which - depending if you already reached the magic number of 5 (e.g. through WEx) reduces your chance to miss by 0.6%. Additionally your dodge chance is reduced, presumably by also 0.6%.

However, I wouldn't take this into account, seeing the major revamp with expertise in the next patch. If the rating conversion stays the same, you'll be seeing also 6 expertise out of 25 expertise rating, giving you a 6*0.25 = 1.25% reduced chance to be dodged and parried.

And no, I haven't noticed any other effect of expertise. Would be kind of weird also if Blizzard revealed the one effect, but kept others as a secret (possible though).

Has it been confirmed that the dodge-reduction goes for both white and yellow attacks?

I still don't see how the belt of one-hundred deaths can be a 10 dps increase over belt of deep shadow though. Can attacks be dodged and parried even when you're behind mobs?

And also, slightly offtopic, the spreadsheet predicts the ideal cycle for me to be 1s/5r. That's fair enough but we all know that we use evis on trash/bosses if we have both snd and rupture running already. Just wondering if using T4 gloves and getting 2 set bonus is > using T5 gloves and getting that 2 set bonus, since the sheet says the T4 gloves are 3 more dps, but would the 200+ more dmg per evis be more than that?

Thanks again.

yes, can be dodged but not parried.

We do? On a boss I just refresh SnD or rupture, depending on the situation. I almost never Evis a boss I can rupture.

Well on bosses that we just stand and nuke, I usually have 15-20 sec left on SnD, and just put up a 5 pt rupture, so I use evis quite a lot. And also when the mob has less than 15 sec to live I use evis > rupture.

Our number one priority is to keep Slice and Dice up all the time.
After that, we need to evaluate which finisher will do the highest DPE (Damage per energy -- Rupture vs Evisc DPE, see posts 1137 and 1141), which is Rupture by a significant margin. Therefore we want to keep Slice and Dice up all the time while using as many Ruptures as possible, which is where you're seeing the 1s/5r cycle come from.

When I have 1 combo point after 5r, and still 15+ seconds left on SnD, I just do another Sinister Strike. I think mixing in 2-point SnDs is better than Evis, since it helps to keep SnD up when I have strings of bad luck.