Crumpet

So even on trash without feral druids in the raid you stick to rupture? It was more wondering if 200+ more dmg on evis is worth 3 dps in raids.

 

songster

Well, there is also the fact that adding combo points to a S'n'D doesn't buy you much more S'n'D duration. Untalented, the first combo point gets you 9 seconds, each subsequent one only gets you 3 more seconds. Thus, depending on whether you are more limited by combo points or by energy, you may want to use as few combo points on S'n'D as possible.

This is where the 1s/3r cycle comes from. Increasing it to 2s doesn't buy you enough time to use a larger rupture and still get back to keeping S'n'D up.

 

Lodfish

Ok, I've got a bit of an excel question.

I have full excel on Mac, running OSX 10.4, but the macros to search for gem/enchant/gear upgrades always error out and bring up Visual Basic.

Yes, macros are enabled, I get the option when I open it just like on the Windows PC at work.

I'm decent at excel, but no where near the point where I can write macros to do things like that.

Are there any other Mac users that have had that issue, or anyone have an idea why they don't work?

Thanks in advance, and for all the hard work in keeping this spreadsheet updated since Pf left.

 

Mideci

Well, to echo the choir... I use eviscerate on trash all the time. Not because it's great but because dead things are not going to benefit from my rupture still tickting. Now, of course, it depends on the trash and some trash lives a long while and can be ruptured. But hitting eviscerate on trash is certainly normal for me.

On bosses? Hydross and VR, of course. Others? I can't see why with maybe one exception. If the cycle gets "broken" by some ridiclous string of combat potency procs I hit the SS key one more time and -- like another poster -- have a margin for next time if I'm building toward SnD or I have a free SS if I'm already at 5cp. Either of these is an extra sinister strike and one might benefit me if the streak goes the other way. If I'm under Adrenaline Rush, things are perhaps different. An eviscerate might sneak through because I can get it out and still get back into the cycle immediately.

I suppose another time to break the rules might be bosses with a weakened or vulnerable state. I'd guess -- never verified -- that a rupture would affect the weakened state with more damage but if still ticking afterwards would not. What comes to mind here is fights like Illhoof and Netherspite and Curator (the third I presume being un-ruptureable, I'm always on adds and evis on the few secs I've ever gotten to hit him).

 

MasterDinadan

Netherspite is also immune to Rupture, so you'll be using eviscerate regardless.

 

sp00n

As found out by Dontmindme in the Roguecraft 101 thread and just verified by me, the calculation for Surprise Attacks is additive to both Opportunity and Aggression.

So cells X6 and X7 in the Unbuffed / Buffed Cycles sheet should be adapted accordingly

X6 - Backstab:
Unbuffed:

[top]Slayer4value*((1+0,04*opp+sa*0,1)*(mhavg*1,5+uap/14*1,7*1,5+255)*(Z6+(ucfact+0,06*leth)*Z7))
Buffed:

Slayer4value*((1+0,04*opp+sa*0,1)*(mhavg*1,5+ap/14*1,7*1,5+255)*(Z6+(cfact+0,06*leth)*Z7))

X7 - Sinister Strike:
Unbuffed:

[top]Slayer4value*((1+0,02*agg+sa*0,1)*(mhavg+uap/14*2,4+98)*(Z6+(ucfact+0,06*leth)*Z7))
Buffed:

Slayer4value*((1+0,02*agg+sa*0,1)*(mhavg+ap/14*2,4+98)*(Z6+(cfact+0,06*leth)*Z7))


The difference is a whooping 1.57 DPS less with my gear.
This is if I haven't missed more occurences of Surprise Attacks in the sheet. I had to search a bit before I found the calculation, didn't expect it to be in the Cycles. :x


Btw, cell X5 in Unbuffed Cycles still has an IF(ohtype="Dagger";1,7;2,4) instead of the ohnorm as used in the Buffed Cycles sheet.

 

Mideci

Yah, thanks for pointing this out... My rogue doesn't run much Karazhan anymore for pretty obvious reasons and the finer points of every encounter to me now center on mana management for my shadow priest.

Anyway, there are a fair amount of uses for eviscerate, none of which include the bosses you can rupture in normal circumstances.

I will also add that meter maximization on trash is a fine thing to a point, but not being dead is a finer thing. So the colossi with the "goo risk" are not worth hitting after 10%, the marshals in TK that 1-shot rogues are easily passed of for their companion mobs, etc. and so forth. But now we are into the issue of dps maximization outside of the theorycraft so I'll let it go.

 

AniwenofLothar

new hemo-ability is now 36 damage w/ 10 charges (vs 10 damage with 30 charges)
the 10 charges should ALWAYS be used now...

Would love to see the rogue spreadsheet incorporate preparation (in conjunction w/ ADRush/SnD).

Would assume that, since it's all max, just double the impact of both... that's what I've been doing... although I know that's not quite accurate.

"Such ... is the state of life, that none are happy but by the anticipation of change; the change itself is nothing; when we have made it, the next wish is to change again."

 

Zaniel

Also worth noting from the most recent PTR build: Aggression is also increasing the damage of Backstab (no longer limited to just SS and Evis) by the same percentages as before.

 

Tyranis

I'm sure this has been asked before but after diving through like 20 pages or so I haven't seen it brought up so here goes.

Why isn't Heroic Presence modeled in the raid buffs section. That extra 1% hit can make a huge difference when finding new gear.

 

Wodahs

I get 1% spell hit from our shaman. We dont have a melee based draenai in our guild, much less my group. I think it would be hard to design your gear choices around being grouped with a rather rare race/class composition. On the other hand, its probably not a hard field to add a checkbox to.

 

Backgoode

Backstab has also been changed from 165% weapon damage to 174%.

 

Duskmourn

It hasn't been changed from 165% to 174%, that's Aggression adding to it. 165x1.06=174.9...
Aggression is multiplicative, Opportunity is additive, so the final Backstab% will be 204%+255 damage. The 0.9% isn't displayed on the tooltip.

*204.9% is with Surprise attacks.

 

Backgoode

Aaah, you are correct. Ignore my post.

 

Tyranis

One of our warriors rerolled when the xpac came out so I pretty much always have him in our group. Not always on farm content but for new boss for sure.

 

Kurani

on 2.3 Totem Twisting is very very more viable, had a ZA pug with an Enh Shaman and he did it every single pull. So I guess we're geting GoA + WF now.

 

Tenge

We sometimes (80% or so) have a Draenei fury warrior in-group, and I've been struggling a bit with balancing my sockets around having him present vs not. The aura is worth ~16 hit rating, so it's non-trivial little buff. In this regard, I'm really looking forward to the Expertise change in 2.3, beyond the already obvious benefits. Having the "hit cap" raised will make it such that the 1% hit aura is never wasted.

(edit for typo)

 

Dontmindme

Agression is additive as well and the reason its going from 165% to 174%
is 150% x 6% = + 9 %

 

Furtim

Do I have this right, I'm getting much bigger benefits than the 1.5-2% that was posted earlier. This is also after making the change to SA being additive to both Aggression and Opportunity.

This is the formula that I used:

Unbuffed Cycles, Cell X6
Buffed Cycles, Cell X6
With 0/3 Aggression, DPS is the same, adding 1pt gives me a 3.54% increase, 2pts is 4.11%, and 3pts is 4.67%

I had to add an IF condition because if it wasn't there, it would be adding an SA bonus no matter what. Because of this, shouldn't Opportunity also be getting an IF condition?

 

Hidden

Using an If condition you enable Surprising Attacks only if you have skilled at least one point in Aggression, the real value is around 0.56% per point of Aggression and 2.98% for SA.
Maths behind this:
- Aggression bonus increases linearly

4.67%-4.11%=0.56%
4.11%-3.54%=0.57%
3.54%-0.56%=2.98%

That 2.98% are the SA bonus you disable when you haven't skilled Aggression in your version; You DON'T need that IF condition, it makes the calculation wrong when you don't have Aggression and doesn't change anything when you do.
By the way, are you sure that the T6 4-piece bonus works multiplicatively with the talents?
It could be that it doesn't given the fact that the talents don't work that way.

 

Furtim

The IF condition is set to only check for SA on Aggression calc.

The problem with not using the conditional is that if you don't have it, it's still increasing the dps numbers when you don't have Aggression.

As for the Slayer bonus, it's the same way it's being modeled for swords, I just had it check aggression as well for daggers.

SS Calc by default is BS Calc by default is DPS Before with 0 Aggresion = 1408.92

BS Calc with Aggression factored in, no conditional 0 pt = 1452.03, 2.97% increase <--- uh, where did the extra dps come from, it's still no aggresion.
1 pt = 1460.65, 3.54% increase
2 pt = 1469.27, 4.11% increase
3 pt = 1477.89, 4.67% increase

Reason for that 2.97% is even tho there are no points in aggression, the calc is still factoring in SA (1*1.1=1.1) for the math on it, telling it to check it as a conditional prevents the SA calc from being added from a talent you aren't using.

I think the big jump for the 1st point is that now you get the 2% bonus from aggression and the 10% bonus from SA as a combo.

*EDIT*
I think i found the calculation that works right.
This takes into account Aggression and Opportunity which are multiplicative then only adds the SA afterwards.

0 pt = 1408.92
1 pt = 1416.88, 0.56%
2 pt = 1424.83, 1.12%
3 pt = 1432.79, 1.67%

 

Dontmindme

Still looks wrong...
Try...
=Slayer4value*((1+0.02*agg+0.04*opp+sa*0.1)*(mhavg*1.5+ap/14*1.7*1.5+255)*(Z6+(cfact+0.06*leth)*Z7))

That reflects that opportunity is additive with surprise attacks and is very likely additionally additive with aggression (since aggression is already known to be additive with surprise attacks for swords).

 

Solaren

I was looking through this thread after hearing about the hit rating cap change, and I was wondering if it was a ratio of hit rating nerf or what is the need for it to be so much higher now?

I have a bellybutton.

 

• Viper

Weapon skill will no longer reduce your chance to miss, so whereas before the 308 hit cap was based on having a 5.5% base miss rate against bosses (360 weapon skill from Weapon Ex talent), 363/364 is the assumed number if the base miss rate in 2.3 is 9% (which is what the base miss rate would be right now if you had 350 weapon skill).

 

Furtim

Wow, if that's the case, it's not even worth a 20dps(1.4%) increase.