I was trying to look for a post and did overview known issues but couldn't find anything regarding DPS with meta gems in the sheet.
Is there a reason that the DPS doesn't change when switching meta gems? Was trying to compare the new Helm from ZA with other Helms available through engineering and tier4/5/6.
Strange, its working for me and i havent done anything to the sheet. I loose for example 6 dps switching from red to thundering skyfire diamond.
That is strange , as I downloaded both versions as well as the beta sheet for 2.3 and all of them my DPS stays the same if I switch meta gems.
Anyone have an idea what might cause this?
Perhaps the meta-gem you have right now is not being enabled because you are not meeting its gem requirement, and so it's not contributing to DPS.
If you switch to another meta-gem and are still not meeting its gem requirement, it also will not contribute to DPS, and thus your overall DPS will be unchanged.
Nice beta sheet! Some things that isnt there yet is the new aggresion for backstab and Waistguard of the Great Beast. Just a reminder
edit. Tried to add the belt to the belt sheet but it didnt show up, or the numbers in the belt sheet(unbuffed/buffed gain) wasnt there. So i just replaced the stats with liars cord, that will work to?
If you want to account for the new change to Hemo (36 dmg * 10 charges), a simple fix is to go to (unhide) the "Buffed Cycles" sheet and change cell X8, replacing the "300" with "360".
Ellos & Mih, any word on an updated 2.3 sheet ?
Without any update, the interest in this thread is falling down.
Most of us knows this is a hard job - that's why we're so glad of the time and effort you've been spending on it - but if you don't want / can't continue this work maybe it's time to announce it.
Edit : I do fill my 2.3 beta sheet with the new stuff, my purpose was more on keeping it updated is a real task, and lack of time / motivation may translate into a lost of interest.
See, for patch 2.2 there was 13 or so beta sheets, and they were valuables for all floks who just don't how to use Excel and such. Again, i don't blame anyone (all contributors earned my respect), i just think the situation should be clear.
I want to build this version in the next time and this will be the last version I'll work on.
The uploaded beta is not the current version, I got here one which got some changes, but I'm working on Aggression now, there are many issues at the moment.
I'm interested...I know that Mutilate/Seal Fate is quick combo points. But as soon as you add SnD talents on the spreadsheet it decreases your Unbuffed and Buffed DPS for each point you add into it. I may be stupid but i cannot work out how it can decrease DPS, unless it is trying to say "hey can you put the talents somewhere elese, because you don't need them where they are".
Has anyone else encountered something similar to this?
I'm interested...I know that Mutilate/Seal Fate is quick combo points. But as soon as you add SnD talents on the spreadsheet it decreases your Unbuffed and Buffed DPS for each point you add into it. I may be stupid but i cannot work out how it can decrease DPS, unless it is trying to say "hey can you put the talents somewhere elese, because you don't need them where they are".
Has anyone else encountered something similar to this?
With the changes to Cheat Death and Dirty Deeds, giving rogues increased damage against targets that have less than 35% life, along with the threat reduction on the next move used after shadowstep, it seems to me that Blizzard is attempting to move the subtlety tree towards a more PVE role, though not nearly to the extent of combat. My question is this, has anyone done the math to see if a rogue that is subtlety specced can have enough sustained DPS to keep up with the talent changes to the patch. The added AP and AGI do help some, but I am curious to see if they, couple with the talent changes, will carry through to raids and make a nice hybrid spec that isn't horribly lacking in long term damage.
With the changes to Cheat Death and Dirty Deeds, giving rogues increased damage against targets that have less than 35% life, along with the threat reduction on the next move used after shadowstep, it seems to me that Blizzard is attempting to move the subtlety tree towards a more PVE role, though not nearly to the extent of combat. My question is this, has anyone done the math to see if a rogue that is subtlety specced can have enough sustained DPS to keep up with the talent changes to the patch. The added AP and AGI do help some, but I am curious to see if they, couple with the talent changes, will carry through to raids and make a nice hybrid spec that isn't horribly lacking in long term damage.
Thoughts?
Cheat Death won't increase your PvE DPS:
From MMO-Champion Cheat Death (Subtlety) chance to trigger increased to 33/66/100% and now also causes the rogue to take 90% less damage for 3 seconds when the effect triggers. This effect cannot occur more than once per minute.
As for Dirty Deeds, a 20% increase in your yellow damage at less than 35% health doesn't work out to a whole lot. Assuming 40% of your damage is yellow, you're doing (1.20*0.4*0.35)-(0.4*0.35)=0.168-0.14=2.8% increase in your total damage. 2.8% damage is not going to close the gap between Sub and the other trees, especially considering the innate flaws of the Subtlety tree.
How about Shadowstep? I don't think threat is really the issue; Sub just won't be able to do enough damage to keep up anyways.
Some rogues with the hemo-hybrid build might consider taking the new version of Dirty Deeds, but it'd be at the loss of Weapon Expertise.
Currently, dropping WE would cost me about 3.6% in DPS, but I'm not sure what dropping WE in 2.3 would cost me, since Blizz is fiddling with weapon skills.
DD would increase DPS by about 2.8%, so my Net Loss would be 0.8%
I wasn't saying cheat death would be gaining DPS, just that it could be used in desperate PVE situations to keep the group alive via tanking with it and evasion.
I wasn't saying cheat death would be gaining DPS, just that it could be used in desperate PVE situations to keep the group alive via tanking with it and evasion.
I still see it as a mainly PvP talent. Sure, it does have some use in a 5-man or heroic, but having your tank die in a raid is usually a wipe regardless.
I still see it as a mainly PvP talent. Sure, it does have some use in a 5-man or heroic, but having your tank die in a raid is usually a wipe regardless.
Nah, it looks like a mainly PvE talent to me. In PvP, if you're that near death, it means the other team are focusing on you, and dodging one blow (with a 90% chance to dodge the next) is as much use as a fart in a hurricane. In PvE, it means that you don't die from that Hurtful Strike - ever - and you have time to Vanish after and drop aggro. It means you don't get randomly one-shotted by a cleave when you bounce in front of Magtheridon.
Cheat Death, in its new version, is absolutely amazing against unpredictable rare spike damage. It's useless against focused fire. Which does a rogue take more of in PvE or PvP?
Nah, it looks like a mainly PvE talent to me. In PvP, if you're that near death, it means the other team are focusing on you, and dodging one blow (with a 90% chance to dodge the next) is as much use as a fart in a hurricane. In PvE, it means that you don't die from that Hurtful Strike - ever - and you have time to Vanish after and drop aggro. It means you don't get randomly one-shotted by a cleave when you bounce in front of Magtheridon.
Cheat Death, in its new version, is absolutely amazing against unpredictable rare spike damage. It's useless against focused fire. Which does a rogue take more of in PvE or PvP?
While I can certainly imagine plenty of situations in PvE where I would love this talent, the bottomline is, it's still faaaaar too deep in Sub to be of any use, and personally I reckon that even if they moved it to the combat tree, most rogues would still rather pick up a talent that would increase their dps. Because, you *should* not get ganked in PvE, and, apart from just bad luck (which doesn't happen too often), that's not that hard. So it's still 3 points that could go somewhere else.
Long story short, in PvP it gives you're healer that 3 secs more to keep you up/ bring you back to full even when focus fired, and just ignoring that 2k execute/pyro whatever, that would usually kill you, doesn't sound so bad at all. I know I'd certainly pick it up.
"If teh alliance had shamens, we wud win more battlegrounses" - random ally (Pre BC)
While I can certainly imagine plenty of situations in PvE where I would love this talent, the bottomline is, it's still faaaaar too deep in Sub to be of any use, and personally I reckon that even if they moved it to the combat tree, most rogues would still rather pick up a talent that would increase their dps.
[Edited out some figures - misunderstood how Dirty Deeds was being shown in the current beta sheet.]
To be honest, the real elephant in the room is Relentless Strikes. That single point is worth about 7.5% of my total DPS. in the potential hybrid Hemo build (11/21/29), and over 5% even in my combat build (20/41/0). That together with dual wield spec taking you up to 20 points in the combat tree means that there's pretty much nothing they can do to deep sub to make it worthwhile for PvE.
I want to build this version in the next time and this will be the last version I'll work on.
too bad you stop working on the sheet, but let me say thanks a lot for what you have done in the last few months for the sheet and the rogue-community!
Who will continue the work, who will the Torch be handed next?
As a sidenote, there was once mentioned a plan to include "Armory-import" of characters & equipment into the sheet. A friend from my guild did that for a priest-sheet he built. So if someone who is taking care of the sheet-development is interested, drop me a personal message and I'll forward the sheet to you and ask my friend permission that the code can be used in the rogue-sheet too.
Still Beta but some improvments.
I'll have to look what I have to do until I can release it.
The Mutilate Imp SnD Bug is still there, the problems are only by a few cycles so I have no Idea how to fix it (well I could give a fix cycle, then it wouldn't show up, but SealFate will it not allow to use a fix cycle.
Patchnotes:
2.3.0.2 ellos
Changed Weapon Skill -> Expertise
Racials -> Human now got 1% crit instead of Weapon skill
Mace now got 1% critdmg-increase for each talentpoint
Added Dirty Deeds
Added Shadowstep
Aggresion now works also for Backstab
Hemo now got 36 dmg and 10 stacks
Backstab Bonus changed from 150% to 165%
Suprise Attacks calculation
Tsunami Uptime 15 -> 10
2.3.0.1 mih
changed Merciless Gladiator's Leather Spaulders (14crit -> 24crit)
Twinblades 45sec inner cooldown
removed Elixir of Major Strength
added New Items
Akil'zon's Talonblade
Ancient Sin'dorei Longbow
Berserker's Call
Bladeangel's Money Belt
Cloak of Fiends
Cruelty
Determination
Fury
Grimgrin Faceguard
Heartless
Master Assassin Wristwraps
Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots
Prowler's Strikeblade
Rage
Ring of Ghoulish Delight
Shadowtooth Trollskin Cuirass
Shallow-grave Trousers
Shoulderpads of Dancing Blades
Signet of Primal Wrath
The Savage's Choker
Trickster's Stickyfingers
Tuskbreaker
Umbral Shiv
Vengeful Gladiator's Bonecracker
Vengeful Gladiator's Leather Gloves
Vengeful Gladiator's Leather Helm
Vengeful Gladiator's Leather Legguards
Vengeful Gladiator's Leather Spaulders
Vengeful Gladiator's Leather Tunic
Vengeful Gladiator's Left Ripper
Vengeful Gladiator's Mutilator
Vengeful Gladiator's Pummeler
Vengeful Gladiator's Quickblade
Vengeful Gladiator's Right Ripper
Vengeful Gladiator's Shanker
Vengeful Gladiator's Shiv
Vengeful Gladiator's Slicer
Vengeful Gladiator's War Edge
Vindicator's Band of Triumph
Vindicator's Leather Belt
Vindicator's Leather Boots
Vindicator's Leather Bracers
Vindicator's Pendant of Triumph
Consumables
Spicy Hot Talbuk
Say it aint so. I registered today just to say thank you for your hard work. I've been using your DPS Spreadsheets for months and they've been a big help.
Did this change in a recent PTR patch? I haven't seen this change reported anywhere.
There was the change to Aggression (6% Backstab increase) but I don't think there was a base Backstab increase.
Also, it looks like Dirty Deeds in the spreadsheet is incorrectly adding to white damage, when it should only be affecting specials. At least, that's how it looks from the DPS increase of adding points in Dirty Deeds, I didn't look through the formulas.
If they did make Dirty Deeds affect white damage it would be a far better talent.
10/26/07, 12:00 PM
But you right i would certainly take bladeangel over that any day.
too bad you stop working on the sheet, but let me say thanks a lot for what you have done in the last few months for the sheet and the rogue-community!
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