Yeah, I didn't see a change there either. The 165% seemed a little suspicious given that this is the same number a typical combat sword rogue will see on the backstab tooltip on live. This is derived from the base 150% of backstab x 110% from Surprise Attacks giving the 165% tootip.

The tooltip appears to read:
Combat swords (Live): 165% = 150% x 1.1 [Surprise Attacks]
Combat swords (PTR): 174% = 150% x (1.1 + 0.06) [Surprise Attacks + Aggression]
Combat daggers (Live or PTR w/o Aggression): 195% = 150% x (1.1 + 0.2) [Surprise Attacks + Opportunity]
Combat daggers (PTR with Aggression): 204% = 150% x (1.1 + 0.2 + 0.06) [Surprise Attacks + Opportunity + Aggression]

Should be noted all these numbers derive from a base of 150%.

On the PTR DD only increases damage below 20% instead of below the 35% it's meant to. It also says it increases "damage" implying everything, but only works on yellow currently.
Whichever way it winds up I'd definitely expect either it or it's tooltip to change before release...

Dirty Deeds has been fixed to work below 35%; fix verified on the PTR.

I also got Netheara to respond to a post of mine about clarifying the wording on the PTR Notes Dirty Deeds change (yay me!):

WoW Forums -> Blizzard, You've Broken Rogues.

No answer as of yet. I'll update when I get one.

anyone know if the damage buff is applied to rupture damage (special attack) now? I read in forums that it wasn't

Yes it is, but only if the Rupture is applied below 35%. If you have one already ticking when the target hits 35%, the ticks will not increase.

I noticed that weapon expertise no longer affects your chance to hit in the new spreadsheet beta. Is this because they removed the "skillcap" ? Would be nice to know if I need more than 308 hit to be at the cap.

Hmm played with the updated sheet and the aggresion seemed to made combat dagger better then maces. Changing from merciless shanker and shiv to vengelful maces i loose 14 dps with current gear. But with 4 points in imp poison i gain 5 dps though.

btw,, think s3 shiv is missing in updated beta sheet. hmm its in the weapons sheeet, but in gear buff i cant see it the offhand list. worked when deleted some other weapon in the list.. maybe som max lenght on list maybe?


woot o.O tried swordspecc with s3 swords and it was lower dps then s3 daggers!! but with 4 points in imp poison i was higher then the daggers.

You may want to hold up on that. When backstab was changed on the sheet from 150% to 165%, it artificially increased the overall damage numbers. To the best of my knowledge, there was no such change.

So, if backstabs account for 30% of one's damage output, combat daggers is going to be overvalued by nearly 3% (not quite a straight 10% due to the flat +255 addition, but close)

For the record, I'm not being too critical. I greatly appreciate the work being done on the sheet and the quick work to get a beta model out for the new changes. Just saying, people should be cautious when using these beta sheets as errors often creep in unexpectedly and I wouldn't want anyone changing specs based on a typo somewhere.

Just be sure to uncheck Surprise Attack when you spec combat daggers, numbers should be inline with base 150%.

I noticed in the latest version it mentioned you changed the Tsunami Talisman proc. What exactly did you do? I noticed it does not list any AP gain from the trinket at all, just the hit and crit. Same with the Hourglass.

I just got the Talisman so I dunno what exactly has changed from an old version of the sheet, just wondering why it shows no AP.

I just uploaded a version with some little bugfixes (150% BS and a fix at the weapon list).

Link is the same then before.

To get exacter Values some Trinkets got different calcs for buffed and unbuffed Stats.

For Example you'll find Tsunami in Buffed DPS Q49. There is calculated the uptime. Then its used for a DPS Calc. This: "Q49*340*NextStat!I7" will give you the DPS you'll gain with this trinket.

I changed only the uptime a little in cell Q49 because I had calculated with 15 sec uptime instead of 10 sec.

I need some general guidance. My armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

I have just gone from a guild using DKP doing Gruul to a guild in SSC and the Eye using Loot Council.

When I start to look at armor upgrades, going from the best Kara pieces to Tier 5, many of the pieces are dps sidegrades, and in some cases downgrades when i lose a set bonus.

There are some obvious upgrades I will shoot for, ring of lethality, wsc, any chest upgrade, TOA, etc. Yes i need the DST, but probably won't get it since my new guild doesn't run Gruul.

However, if I have a chance at Tier 5, what do I do. It seems wrong to ask for an item then bank it until I get a set bonus. Should I wait on most of the tier 5 until I get other significent upgrades.

My new guild has several new people, so tier 5 won't be going to waste if I pass on it.

I was pretty much in the same boat, Khaavren. In my case I picked up the T5 gloves and have basically waited until everyone else has what they need. You might want to pick up the shoulders (Shoulderpads of the Stranger will be almost as good as T5 once 2.3 hits). I've pretty much given up on getting the 4-piece T5 set bonus as my guild is only killing Kael and Vashj to get people Hyjal-attuned now.

When I checked CoC vs. T4, using just the T4 hlm/gloves (i.e. no activation of 4 pc bonus when the chest was added) I do get the DPS increase you would expect with +2 agi / +1 hit...

Alright then, I hope it generly works.
The last Version I'll worked on:

http://rogue.raidcal.com/

Version: 2.3.0.2

Maybe someone else will maintain this sheet for you all.

If someone wants to work on this sheet, he should maybe talk with mih, he got the Username and Passwort for the website.

Thank you for doing so.

Just need on it, I would say. Tier 5 is better than tier 4. Even if you loose a setbonus, just wait till you get another piece of the set. It's no matter of what the guild thinks. It doesn't matter if you are gonna bank it. It IS an upgrade, you just need to wait till you get another piece to wear it at the end.

This has always been a topic of discussion in the past I know, and a lot of people have this feeling and believe overall DPS loss going from tier 4 -> tier5.

You are right in the sense at when one replace 1-2 pieces with tier 5 only, losing 2-set bonus from tier4 one actually decrease in DPS on sheets. But as you would add more pieces and gemming accordingly you will see that tier 5 edges out tier 4 DPS wise, but losing 1 tier 4 piece resulting in set bonus loss , you will see decrease in DPS.

Only reason why kara/tier 4 epics is so good is that it is extremely easy to reach to hit cap, which is the cheapest/easiest stat to get up for DPS increase. Tier 5 is overall better in DPS, it just caters different stats. I suggest picking up Tier5 hands (better than tier 5 and more hit) as well as shoulders. From there on you can replace each piece with tier 5. (play with ALOT of combos on sheets, you will see what I mean).

You will lose a lot of hit, but you can gem +8hit gems in belt of deep shadows as well as pickup Bloodsea brigand chestpiece (gemming Glinting noble topaz /+ 8 hit). Rest you can fill up with tier 5.

Pieces you should definitely pickup are :

- BBV (Very nice , easy to get upgrade , DONT WANNA DROP FOR US))
- WSC
- Ring of lethality (or TT if you can't get DST)
- tier 5 gloves/shoulders
- Talon (Although you have merciless, Talon is still an upgrade with 2.7 speed and superior stats , also more hit which you will need with tier 5)

Rest of the pieces you can play around with on sheet, like picking up tier 5 legs etc ...

Another thing you can suggest to you guild is to raid with a Moonkin (free +3% hit for WHOLE RAID) as well as in 2.3 there are +20 hit rating food.

mt sorry

Any idea what to change in the spreadsheet for the 125% damage change?

Cell X8 on the Buffed Cycles sheet should read:
=((mhavg+ap/14*mhspd)*1.25)*(Z6+(cfact+0.06*leth)*Z7)+360*(1+raidcrit)*debuffon (The extra parentheses make it look neater to me)

You can also add the 1.25 multiplier to the Unbuffed Cycles sheet in the same fashion.

Hm. blizzard seems to be reworking hemo.
125% damage change, 100something damage bonus.
Is it still not normalized, or has it been normalized now?