The answer is that you should take Vile Poisons and not bother Shivving. It doesn't matter if DP falls off, it will refresh itself. You are overthinking it, poisons are a comparatively small portion of your DPS.

That was my point vulajin, that all this hubbub of taking imp poisons was pointless because you lose 12% dmg to poisons that rarely fall off if you are itemized/spec properly. And, like you said, they usually do a minimal amount of overall dps, so its' kind of a moot point.

My guess is because it will take you longer to get combo points without combat potency. SnD is more likely to end before it's reapplied with a 3/5 cycle. Correct me if I'm wrong

Not a typo. I do not recall if its this thread or another rogue thread, but after an analysis of WWS fights showing an average around 6% dodge against bosses with few casts and the discovery that bosses cannot dodge during various channeled casts, the boss dodge rate has been theorized as now being 6.5%. Add to this that no one sees any dodges against level 57 mobs in Blasted Lands and some testing showing no dodges against mobs 10 levels lower, it has been further theorized that the dodge rate scales 0.5% per level difference (or per 5 weapon skill) which would also agree with a 6.5% dodge rate for bosses. Also interesting that this 0.1% per weapon skill matches the 0.1% proven for miss rates (of course weapon skill being a relic of the past - with 2.3 in action).

Trispec hemos have longer cycles (slower cp generation) than specs with combat potency. Thats why those hemospecs are awfully boring to play in my opinion.

Since the spreadsheet doesnt have the S2 daggers in it, can anyone help me decide if I should stay C-daggs with my 2 S2 daggers or go C-swords with a spiteblade and S2 offhand sword? Would the dps be equal or less when downgrading my mainhand even though C-swords is better dps?

I was a combat dagger rogue with my 2 S2's, I switched to sword with the Spiteblade I had in the bank and bought the offhand S2 for the 20 dps increase the sheet before the patch displayed. I'd guess the gap is pretty similar with the new patch. 20 dps better for swords in optimal conditions which means playing the hell out of daggers to maximize dps, vs. swords which at least still does some damage when you are out of position.

Is the Aggresion talent working correctly? @2.3.0.3 nothing happens with the dps if i switch it on and off

I posted this in the wrong thread, apologies.

It depends on your spec i think, do you have hemo active as a talent?

I had the same prob und I don't think its working correctly. If you compare the ssbase & bsbase in the sheet Un/Buffed Cycles (X6 / X7) than you see that in bsbase the calculation for aggresion is missing.
I just copy paste the aggresion part (1+0,02*agg) from ss to bs and now its working fine (hopefully) .
If I am wrong pls correct me.

But it has nothing to do with hemo....

Short question.
My math might be wrong, but in the sheet the hemo debuff is a dps increase of 147 dps.

Shouldn´t it be:
Overall dmg of 10 stacks (360) / time to regenerate 35 energy? (3,5 sek.)

This would mean, that the hemo debuff is just worth 102.85 dps, or even lower because of finishers.

Does Envenom not play any role in the choice between imp poisons and vile poisons? With the amount of speed combo points get racked up with mutilate, imp. poisions basically ensures that one will have a 5-point stack before or a few seconds after your last mutilate, and almost always hits the target for at least 1.7k points of damage.

However, perhaps I'm thinking of this from a PVP point of view, since stunlocks are used more frequently, and I understand that deadly poisons could be more suitable in raiding situations, since it's guranteed that poisons will stay for their full duration.

Sorry if that was mentioned, I haven't taken the time to read the full discussion.

It's boosted by crits, so you need to multiply up by the average crit rate of the physical DPS in your raid.

a bit more robust:

using 2s/5r - 1 cycle takes 7 combo points
7*35 energy for hemo = 245e
25e for snd - .4*25e for relentless strikes + 25e for rupture - 25e for relentless strikes = 15e
total energy = 15 + 245 = 260
260 energy requires 26 seconds to generate

26 second cycle with 70 hemo charges for a total

let's assume a 25% melee crit rate and 30% mitigation on 2/3 (white) damage

46 white hits = 11.5crits/34.5mitigated

11.5(36)(2)+34.5(36)(.7)= 414 + 869.4 = 1283.4

24 yellow hits = 6 crits/18 normal
6(36)(2) + 18(36) = 432 + 648 = 1080

total damage = 1283.4 + 1080 = 2363.4

2363.4/26 = approx. 91 dps for the raid

using 4s/5r (my suggested cycle) - 1 cycle takes 9 combo points
9*35 energy for hemo = 315e
25 for snd - .8*25 for relentless strikes + 25e for rupture - 25e for relentless strikes = 5e
total energy = 5 + 315 = 320
320 energy requires 32 seconds to generate
4/5 T5 PPM of 1.5 = 25e over 40 sec = .625e/sec
32 * .625 = 20e, provides roughly 2 seconds of energy regen, reducing cycle to 30 seconds.

30 second cycle with 90 hemo charges for a total of 3240 damage
3240/30 = approx. 108 dps for the raid

not counting T5 4/5

32 second cycle with 90 hemo charges for a total of 3240 damage
3240/32 = approx. 101.25 dps for the raid

Hemo debuff will be valued higher the longer your own cycle is, and will be valued lower the shorter your cycle is.

The problem is that you should almost never use envenom in a PvE situation.

A) You should almost always be using Rupture. period.

B) Since you will probably have WF mh, DP oh only = harder to get poison procs, even if you had imp poisons, but since you shouldn't take that either (imo, vile = more dps overall), you'll not want to waste any stacks of poison on the target with envenom, it loses a lot of dps in the downtime of the poison stack.

Is the current spreadsheet setup with the mace spec changes. I was interested in putting in a duel spec setup with it to see how dps varies

mace/sword spec.

Could this item be added to a next version ?


Seems to be a world drop, but according to http://www.worldofraids.com/ it came from a pickpocketed lockbox.
Seems to be better than [Arcanite Steam-Pistol] stats wise.

I was working on a way to model SealFate for HemoSF build and you will receive some information after i had finished.
I think i found something wrong on the sheet.

The starting point is that the best cycle shout be something like 4-5 snd /4-5 rupture.
I try to avoid making another hemo while at 4 combo point.

I have built a little excel that do the math for the cycle lenght based on crit % and then consider the uptime % of snd and rupture.

I consider with 0 expertise Hemo cost = 35,38 and a little cost on rupture finisher asweel.

The thing that currently made me wonder is the istant for second of the cell Q17 in Buffed DPS sheet.
It's 0,361 that mean 36,1 hemo every 100 seconds or 1277,22 energy every 100 seconds and of course it cannot be.

Seal Fate is not amenable to statistical modelling - period.

Statistical modelling is all about working out the "average" number of procs per cycle, and determining what's best to do based on that average rate. However, in the real world you have to deal with actual procs and streaks, where sometimes you will have too few combo points, sometimes too many. That will never be captured by any statistical model that addresses average rates.

On average, you have one testicle and one tit. I don't advise using that as a basis for predicting your love life.

Yes, if you put a more correct number in the sheet, you can see a sad truth, the dps of 3x/0/3x seems to be a bit lower than 20/41 sword.
And is not nearly competitive with a 11/28/22 spcc