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Old 09/21/07, 4:42 PM   #781
massacre
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Whisperwind
are you looking at the unbuffed or buffed dps, it works fine for me

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Old 09/21/07, 8:27 PM   #782
Pips
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
I was looking at unbuffed! I knew it had to be something silly I was doing wrong...

Deadly poison showed on the unbuffed damage though, so I was looking there for WF as well. As far as I can remember, WF did show in unbuffed damage in a previous version of the spreadsheet.

Anyway, I know where to look now, thanks

Last edited by Pips : 09/21/07 at 8:40 PM.

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Old 09/22/07, 4:03 PM   #783
Xaoc
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Eitrigg
Rogues cant cast WF on their weapons, so it wont show up under unbuffed. But they can cast poisons, which is why it showed the increase in the unbuffed table.

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Old 09/22/07, 4:56 PM   #784
songster
Chief Passenger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Xaoc View Post
Rogues cant cast WF on their weapons, so it wont show up under unbuffed. But they can cast poisons, which is why it showed the increase in the unbuffed table.
Hmm - they can also use flasks/potions etc. Are those included in the "unbuffed" figure too?

<confused>

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Old 09/23/07, 12:08 AM   #785
Xaoc
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Eitrigg
Those would be included under the buffed section, since you are buffing your base stats. Poisons do not modify any stats, which is why they show under unbuffed DPS.

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Old 09/23/07, 5:14 AM   #786
Zurgat
King Hippo
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Aszune (EU)
Could you add the following buff in the near future : "Traces of Silithyst"
Its a buff obtained from the pvp objectives in silithus.
It adds +5% damage to ranged, spells and melee.


On a side note, rupture is supposed to scale with attack power, correct?
But, when i look at my ingame tooltips, whether i'm naked or fully equipped 5p rupture shows1000 damage over 16 seconds.
Eviscerate however shows 1238-1366 with my current gear.
When i tested it (with the silithyst buff active) recap showed 8x183-184 = 1467 damage.
Without the buff it did 175 dmg per tick = 1400.
Ingame tooltip bug i guess?

Last edited by Zurgat : 09/23/07 at 5:40 AM.

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Old 09/23/07, 6:28 AM   #787
Xaoc
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by Zurgat View Post
Could you add the following buff in the near future : "Traces of Silithyst"
Its a buff obtained from the pvp objectives in silithus.
It adds +5% damage to ranged, spells and melee.


On a side note, rupture is supposed to scale with attack power, correct?
But, when i look at my ingame tooltips, whether i'm naked or fully equipped 5p rupture shows1000 damage over 16 seconds.
Eviscerate however shows 1238-1366 with my current gear.
When i tested it (with the silithyst buff active) recap showed 8x183-184 = 1467 damage.
Without the buff it did 175 dmg per tick = 1400.
Ingame tooltip bug i guess?
The ingame tooltip does not recalculate the dmgs based on atk power, it only shows what the base level is. You would have to get some addon (DrDamage or something similar) that will correctly display the tooltips including all buffs.

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Old 09/23/07, 10:44 PM   #788
AniwenofLothar
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lothar
Originally Posted by liquidroyl View Post
\Here's a WWS parse of our most recent Lurker Kill:
Wow Web Stats
compared to yours:
Wow Web Stats
1) You can avoid the whirls just by not being at the absolute inner edge of the platform
2) You can dps Lurker during spouts by jumping to the inside water rather than the outside
10% uptime difference is a LOT of damage.
What kills me is I actually did more SS damage than you, by about 20k, and more rupture damage, but my white damage is about 80k LESS... yikes... Checking your armory, I can only assume you're in Arena gear so I can't quite make a comparison.
In addition, you should be able to Adrenaline Rush at least twice during this battle, and Blade Flurry ~5 times. You only recorded 1 AR and 2 BFs. Despite a lower dps uptime, you had 17 S+Ds, compared to my 14.
I did slack on the cooldowns. It was my first time really on the fight (i've been forced to my priest lately due to a couple taking a vacation) so I wasn't cool with them really. I'll do better on that next time.

Here's a question: How do you play AD:Rush?
I generally get a SnD up before hand, hit it, BF, Trinket, 5p Rupture ASAP, generally 5p Evisc then hopefully a 2nd 5p rupture w/ my 270ap Trinket still up, then back to 1/5 cycles.

"Such ... is the state of life, that none are happy but by the anticipation of change; the change itself is nothing; when we have made it, the next wish is to change again."

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Old 09/24/07, 1:33 AM   #789
Premortem
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Originally Posted by liquidroyl View Post
AniwenofLothar: It looks like you may be a little too weary of the Whirls; my DPS uptime is generally significantly higher. This may be the next place to look for in terms of areas to improve.

Here's a WWS parse of our most recent Lurker Kill:
Wow Web Stats

compared to yours:
Wow Web Stats

check out the difference in dps times.

Here are some possible areas that could explain this difference:

1) You can avoid the whirls just by not being at the absolute inner edge of the platform - you do'nt have to be at the extreme outside. I avoid them fairly easily by moving out 2 seconds before the timer says it's coming, and you can move back in before the animation is fully complete - I believe the 'strike' itself only occurs at the beginning of his anim.


2) You can dps Lurker during spouts by jumping to the inside water rather than the outside


10% uptime difference is a LOT of damage. In addition, you should be able to Adrenaline Rush at least twice during this battle, and Blade Flurry ~5 times. You only recorded 1 AR and 2 BFs. Despite a lower dps uptime, you had 17 S+Ds, compared to my 14.

These are just the random things I spotted that may be able to help - hope I don't sound too much like an EJ.
Please pardon me shooting in these off-topic comments:

Regarding 1): From what I've seen, the "swirl-strike" does indeed happen just as he starts the animation.

Regarding 2) - Being in the inner pool works, but you can also run around lurker while he's spouting, constantly damaging him. Saves you/healers from worrying about that bit of damage you take while staying in the water as well - even though it's quite minor. When he stops the spout animation, move a few steps back and then go back in and you'll avoid the initial swirl after spout too.

Last edited by Premortem : 09/24/07 at 1:40 AM.

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Old 09/24/07, 3:34 AM   #790
Zurgat
King Hippo
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Aszune (EU)
Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
I don't understand why you would add +H73 to that formula. You're basically double-counting your +hit socket bonus, because uhit already includes that cell in it's summation. I can confirm that my armory hit rating does not match what is returned by that formula, but it does match "uhit-H75".

Problem found, uhit-H75 is indeed correct.
The reason it displays 3 hit more than the ingame character sheet is because the sheet uses the 2.2 weapons and armor.
In patch 2.2 a few items are getting their +hit increased, which results in +3 hit versus the current values.

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Old 09/24/07, 4:19 PM   #791
Ellos
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Zurgat View Post
Problem found, uhit-H75 is indeed correct.
The reason it displays 3 hit more than the ingame character sheet is because the sheet uses the 2.2 weapons and armor.
In patch 2.2 a few items are getting their +hit increased, which results in +3 hit versus the current values.
I think I'll don't change the Hit value. At the moment the hitvalue is: Hit from Items + Hit from Talents + Hit from Weaponskills, so it's your realy Hitchance.

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Old 09/24/07, 7:23 PM   #792
fraserstanton
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Cenarius
I noticed that the Talon of Ashara has the 2.1 stats rather than the 2.2 stats, but you are using the new 2.2 haste ratings everywhere. Some other weapons got changed too ... but I don't have those so don't care.

Please update the 2.2 weapons when you get a chance.

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Old 09/25/07, 2:48 AM   #793
Zurgat
King Hippo
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Aszune (EU)
Originally Posted by Ellos View Post
I think I'll don't change the Hit value. At the moment the hitvalue is: Hit from Items + Hit from Talents + Hit from Weaponskills, so it's your realy Hitchance.
That's all ok, i just added a custom cell in "S6" that displays the hitrating which you see on your character screen. It's pretty useful.


Originally Posted by fraserstanton View Post
I noticed that the Talon of Ashara has the 2.1 stats rather than the 2.2 stats, but you are using the new 2.2 haste ratings everywhere. Some other weapons got changed too ... but I don't have those so don't care.

Please update the 2.2 weapons when you get a chance.
It displays 20 hit, and 15 agi on the sheet i'm using, which are the 2.2 stats.

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Old 09/25/07, 8:33 AM   #794
Antumbra
oh god spiders
 
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Antumbra
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by AniwenofLothar View Post
A question for the "pro" rogues out there...
I notice you already got some really great responses on your rotation and such so I don't really have much to add there. From looking at your armory, though, it feels like you're oversocketing stam and agility when you're not really lacking them at all - imho, you'd be better served by socketing the hell out of +8 hit or +4hit +4agi gems anywhere you can - girdle of treachery is the biggest offender; you REALLY don't need that stam, and 3 agi isn't worth wasting that many itemization points.

No guarantees, YMMV and such, but I think if you boosted your hit you'd see an across-the-board improvement in DPS, from a combination of increased white damage, increased proc rates, and better energy management due to CP proccing slightly more. In my case, going from around 200-225 hit all the way up to the hit cap (308, in my case) made a tremendous difference in my effectiveness.

The rest is most likely due to getting the wrong buffs for your class, like a couple other people have said. If your raid composition prevents you from getting the appropriate buffs to do good DPS, there's very little you can do about it... my guess would be that the other rogues topping your DPS are simply geared and specced in a way that makes them less dependent on buffs.

On the topic of AR, the AR technique you describe is basically identical to mine, except I don't equip Use trinkets, and I find it pretty effective. It does help to chug a haste pot before or after popping AR, though, to maximize the number of procs you get during the duration - on Gruul in particular I typically chug 3-5 pots in an attempt, timed to coincide with BF and AR. It's definitely effective if eating hateful strikes is your goal, at least. On the other hand, I'm absolutely awful at using cooldowns effectively (which is why I don't use Use trinkets), so this may be entirely bad advice. Just figured I'd throw my two cents in since I haven't seen any in depth responses on this subject yet.

Since you mention rupture, are you sure your feral druids are keeping Mangle up at all times? Worth checking into, at least; I've had the misfortune of running with bad druids who forget to mangle consistently.

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Old 09/25/07, 9:51 AM   #795
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Antumbra View Post
On the other hand, I'm absolutely awful at using cooldowns effectively (which is why I don't use Use trinkets), so this may be entirely bad advice.
On this subject, I'm using a macro now to synchronize BF and Abacus:

#showtooltip Blade Flurry
/cast Blade Flurry
/use 13

13 is the upper trinket slot. Works best for 2 minute cooldowns, as blade flurry is.

I could add in another /use Drums of Battle, but I don't always want to use the drums when I activate the BF (since they have charges).

Stopped Playing

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