I plugged in my gear (if I were to respec Combat Daggers right now) and the spec you linked into 2.2.0.13 and I had 2.72% drop on my buffed dps on a mob not affected by Murder, 0.33% on a mob affected by Murder comapred to the cookie-cutter Combat Daggers. So I would guess that the biggest difference is Murder.

I'll say offhand, that ESPECIALLY as daggers, combat potency is the only way to go. If you lose it, you're losing TONS of dps opportunities, especially since BS is 60 nrg. I think the only thing I could say FOR that spec is that with seal fate, and the usual 60% crit chance of BS, you'll have a lot of free combo points, but I'm guessing it won't be enough to make up for it.

I've noticed that the stats for the choker of animalistic fury are incorrect in the current build

The current stats being used are 24agi, 23sta, 64ap
The correct stats are 24sta, 23crit rating, 64ap

Well one of the reasons I am very careful and usually reluctant to spec combat daggers is the eventual lost combo points which you don't waste as a non-dagger combat spec. Looking at this build briefly there are many talent points which I would change but to be simple and concise I would just focus on the three talent points into Seal Fate, these three talent points would give the player a much larger general DPS increase if they were put into Adrenaline Rush. Also instead of putting 5 points into Lightning Reflexes you should put the 3 into Improved Sinister Strike because there will always be moments during boss fights at which you can not be behind a boss and the decrease in energy will be very useful. All in all its a not a horrible build but standard 15/41/5 would definitely be the way to go.

I'm farming 5 bosses at SSC and wiping on Vashj. Your gear is similar to mine(do not check armory link, looks like itemrack got bugged when switching to pve gear before logging out and the result is..quite interesting to look at) except for 2 really important spots:
a) Dragonspine!
b) Weapons: You really need some upgrades over there. My best advice considering you won't get lucky and get any instance drop will be doing 2-3 weeks of decent arenas and get arena shiv. I do not have any problems topping metters(specially post 2.2=scorpid poison nerf) with both arena swords, and recently I tried raiding one night with both arena daggers and the result was excellent. What do I want to say? Don't be afraid of going combat daggers(as long as you get the arena shiv), at least at our gear level the dps loss over combat swords(with same quality weapons) is minimal and you will actually get a big dps increase as you are gaining 10dps on your mainhand and 26 on your offhand

One last thing:don't use the upgrade function on the sheet to compare items with different gem sockets. Equip cowl of defiance, save dps, and equip netherblade helm with the RED and another gem of your choice and check the dps increase/decrease

I've been a lurker on these forums for several months and have always been able to find answers to my questions without posting so it was never necessitated. Lately though I've been pretty busy irl and haven't been keeping up with things as much, so I just have a quick question. Sorry if this has already been covered.

I run 1s/5r as combat swords with the 2 and 4 piece T4 set bonuses. The problem is that this usually ends up being more than enough to keep rupture up 100% of the time. I often find myself at 5 CP with SnD running and rupture with 4-5 seconds left. My question - is it better in this case to just wait for rupture to expire and reapply it, or to finish with eviscerate and start a new cycle? Reapplying rupture before the previous one finishes is often not an option because the previous rupture will have been done with higher AP and I can't override it.

I have had bad luck with DSTs not dropping and I imagine that this situation would only be compounded with one as I'd be getting a lot more combat potency procs.

Jitte - WWS - here is an anonymous WWS report of our Mag kill tonight if that helps any... As you can see I ended up throwing a few eviscerates, though a couple were during the 2 ARs I got off and on the adds who went down much too fast for rupture to be worth it.

Hi, i can't select any swords nor maces on the sheet... kidding.


As many, i'm a long time reader, first time poster.
My first words are props to the many people who are doing such a great job (chalon, valar, kalman, garona, pf, ellos, mih and all the contributors).

I'm trying to follow the whole thread, be forgiving if those changes have already been submited.

Just some tweaks for some next version of the sheet.
1 - Warp slicer can be equipped in OH
2 - The haste bonus on this sword is 210. However, the tooltip shows it's +20% to attack speed, with the 2.2 changes haste bonus should be more like 315
yes, my guild is working on Kael'Thas
3 - [Messenger of Fate] is shown as a reputation item instead a BT loot
4 - In the offhand section, the -armor part from [Boundless Agony] and the hit / crit part from [Kingsfall] are missing

With sp00n's findings in the weapon skill formula thread, i fail to understand how [Belt of One-Hundred Deaths] can be so much an upgrade from [Belt of Deep Shadow], especialy for rogues with Weapon Expertise.
I'm actualy sitting at 367 dagger skill with WE, Hydross shoulders and Vashj's dagger, and Vashj's belt is still shown as a 7 dps upgrade.

Removing the 21 dagger skill from [Fang of Vashj], i have to use 20 crit rating and 10 hit rating to retrive the same DPS, and the hit part from +21 skill rating is 8 hit rating.

I know the part about +crit and -dodge is still unknown, but weapon skill seems overrated in this sheet.

So, I've crunched all of the numbers, and I just can't figure out why this other rogue is out-DPSing me.

WWS: Wow Web Stats
I'm rogue in #3 he's the one in #1. He's got about 50 more +hit than me, i've got an extra 1% crit, and we have the same AP. I'm daggers with an A2 shanker, a feltooth offhand. He's got a wolf paw and an A1 fist offhand.

There are some minor differences, naturally (i died about 20 seconds before the fight ended, my shaman wasn't good about refreshing WF totem, he has the poison vial trinket) but they shouldn't create this kind of DPS gap.

My own theory is that daggers are unsuited for fights with frequent cycle interrupts -- enfeebles on prince, shatters on gruul, etc. My "optimal cycle" of 3s/5s/5r just takes too long to ever be able to do. I have 2/4 T4 so I frequently shiv and do a 1 pt S&D to just to maintain 100% uptime when i get back after a ground pound/enfeeble. According to the spreadsheet, with my gear etc I should do 7% more damage than him.

What gives? Is there any way to forcibly shorten the length of the cycle to determine what the optimal, say, 40 second DPS cycle with combat daggers would be?

One thing that I can notice from looking at the WWS is that you're not using your cooldowns as much as you could be. During the fight you only got 2 BFs and 3 Lust for Battles off, while he got 4 of each.

@Pstar: I noticed from the WWS that you only got 4 windfury attacks while Chinte got 23. Were the two of you in the same group? If you were, it looks like you got out of range of your shaman for a large chunk of the fight, while he stayed in range and so got windfury.

Well for one you'd get more procs of WF since your MH is 1.8 speed while his is 2.5, so you would get more procs though your average damage per proc would be lower. Yeah it might not add that much, but it would be a bit more than you estimated.

As far as the shorter cycle, since you have the 2-piece Netherblade bonus, have you considered doing the 1s/3r rotation I've seen floating around?

I've heard good things about it both because it is short like the sword/fist 1s/5r and that it does very good damage.

Edit: Different groups could also mean different group buffs. You both had a shaman, but did you both have a dps warrior with talented Battle Shout or a Feral Druid? If he got to be in the "melee" dps group with all the group buffs that implies and you got stuck in the "random people who don't already have groups" group, that could mean a significant loss in dps just from a lack of group buffs.