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Old 10/15/07, 8:28 AM   #946
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by songster View Post
No you can't. All other ratings work with fractional points - this is a new stat and new rating, so it makes sense that it will indeed give fractional points.

As mentioned above, weaponskill was in the game as an integer value long before weaponskill rating was kludged on top of it. This in itself is enough of an explanation for why weaponskill would be truncated, unlike every single other rating stat in the game.

All that can be said at this point is that we should make no assumptions either way until it is tested.
Well, at least the character sheet on PTR says so. With 2 WeX and [Shoulderpads of the Stranger], it says my expertise is 12 and my chance to be dodged is reduced by 3%. Of course it could be wrong, but as long as not proved otherwise, I'd go with the character sheet.

I'm going to see if I can gather enough expertise rating to do such a test.
Against level 70 and a presumed 5% dodge rate, with 2 WeX, you'd need a rating to match 2.5% dodge.
If partial counts towards it, 40 additional rating would be enough (40/(2.5*82/52)*0.25= 2.537%), and if not, you'd need 48 additional rating (48/(2.5*82/52)*0.25= 3.044%).
It depends on a 5% dodge rate of course.

Easier would be testing against a blasted land mob, but unfortunately they're level 57, so if weapon skill still does give 0.1% anti dodge against lower level enemies, you won't see any dodges against mobs under level 61.

// Edit
Bah, blatant bullshit.
It's not 48 expertise rating, as the steps are 0.25%.
I have to think about another way to test this.

Last edited by sp00n : 10/15/07 at 9:40 AM.

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Old 10/15/07, 9:44 AM   #947
mih
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mannoroth (EU)
#925

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Old 10/15/07, 10:23 AM   #948
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Hm, I see no way of testing it besides statistical analysis.

The problem is that between two points of expertise rating, the difference is never larger than 0.2488% in dodge, when comparing not truncated to truncated (this value being 67 expertise rating).
Therefore there is never the case when a non truncated formula would see no dodges against a mob, whereas a truncated formula would produce dodges.

The only option then would be to gather thousands of thousands of swings, and to look for a statistical mismatch. Something I certainly do not plan to do anymore right now.

Therefore, without such testing, I'll just stick to the character sheet.

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Old 10/15/07, 11:13 AM   #949
Usaybis
Glass Joe
 
Usaybis's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by vangelder View Post
I saw this post above and I'm getting a similar result. I have a theoretical Sword Spec build (19/42) with gear similar to the above that I like to tinker with. In it I'm finding GoA+IP better than WF totem by about 4 dps (assuming both are improved).

Conventional wisdom has ALWAYS pointed to WF being far better than GoA, so the result startled me. Is this accurate?
I'd like some answers here as well. I have a rogue in my raid group that has run some numbers with his combat dagger build and says that GoA + IP will actually do more damage than WF. I'm trying to crunch some numbers myself, but if anyone here already has I'd love to see them.

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Old 10/15/07, 12:46 PM   #950
Mo
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Ysondre
GoA + IP/DP has always done (slightly) more damage with dagger based builds when taken in a vacuum, and with the nerf it's not that surprising that it happens for swords too.

The issue is that warriors benefit a lot more from windfury than GoA due to rage mechanics (plus agi isn't a great stat for them), and the tiny dps gained from going from wf to goa/ip is nothing compared to what you gain from battle shout.

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Old 10/16/07, 3:41 AM   #951
Batory
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Proudmoore
Did anyone try to see, if Ruthlessness change affects in any way Slice and Dice ? As a patch notes say that it will only affect melee finishers, however non of the finishers say in their tooltip if they are melee or not. It's pretty obvious that Rupture or Evis/Envenom, as they can be triggered only in melee range. SnD tho can be triggered wherever, thats why I'm getting confused with it.

I don't have access to PTR, can't copy my character there for last few days (always says server too busy). If anyone on PTR may have a time to test that, would be nice to know. If SnD is not triggering Ruthlessness, then it will have a huge impact on our dps.

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Old 10/16/07, 3:47 AM   #952
Tupu
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Kor'gall (EU)
"Ruthlessness
Slice and Dice still triggers this talent. No change, just stating to silence the confusion about this. Unconfirmed if this is intended or not."

Some rogue posted this on our guild forum.

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Old 10/16/07, 4:45 AM   #953
Xaoc
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Eitrigg
I believe that little snippit about Ruthlessness about melee finishers was to further emphasize it no longer working with Deadly Throw, which is a ranged finisher.

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Old 10/16/07, 6:43 AM   #954
Batory
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Proudmoore
Would be great of course to see blue confirming on that, good to know however it got tested. Thanks

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Old 10/16/07, 7:40 AM   #955
Radmsc
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Quel'Thalas (EU)
I assume it will still work with slice and dice as it does now. The patch notes say the following:

Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves. It no longer works with Deadly Throw.

Slice and dice is a melee ability, so I assume it will still work after 2.3

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Old 10/16/07, 8:22 AM   #956
exog
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Technically one can be out of melee range of a mob to do SnD...

But yea we are talking about blizzard and we've seen patchnotes before that are somewhat diffuse... so id be surprised if SnD stopped proccing ruthlessness.

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Old 10/16/07, 8:47 AM   #957
Zurgat
King Hippo
 
Zurgat's Avatar
 
Troll Rogue
 
Aszune (EU)
It used to be possible to use CPs when your target was dead, but sadly that got nerfed.
The only real option would be to have CPs be attached to the rogue himself.

There have been some hints about it, but can't seem to find them again.

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

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Old 10/16/07, 9:06 AM   #958
enno
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Slice and Dice has a 100yrd range so it shouldn't be a melee finisher. Anyway, lets hope blizzard keeps it unlogical as this.

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Old 10/16/07, 12:55 PM   #959
Barob
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Magtheridon
Hi guys, downloaded the spreadsheet acouple of days ago and it has helped me improve my dps somewhat.

Earlier today I noticed something odd while playing around with the talents, checking if I could make som minor adjustments that would improve my dps.

Im currently running a 15/41/5 dagger spec and I noticed that my dps wasent changed at all when I changed the number of talent points in ruthlessness, it didnt matter if I had 1, 2 or 3 points in it, the dps was still the same, the dps only dropped when I put 0 points in it.

I guess that ruthlessness isnt as benifical for combat daggers as it is for swords since I dont use finishers as often, but there still should be a small difference between 1 and 3 points in ruthlessness shouldnt it?

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Old 10/16/07, 2:51 PM   #960
Stokos
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Magtheridon (EU)
When are you planning to update this spreasheet? I am really eager to see comparisons between S3 - BT weps as well as executioner/mongoose, now that we got some actual data on it.

I am thinking of going fist-sword (both s3 weapons) over my current Infamy/Savagery swords and i would like to have some info on this

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