* Improved talent for Windfury / Flametong is broken: Formula is missing in cell B106 (=1+C106*0,15)
* Hemorrhage should only affect the buffed dps when selected in the boss debuff section.
* Problem with Thistle Tea and maybe with the bonus regen energy in general (i.e. +Syphon of the Nathrezim). Indeed, all Speed Increases buffs seem to decrease the gain of buffed DPS given by Thistle Tea.
Whith Haste Potion, Bloodlust and Drum of Battle ON I get 0 buffed dps in 2.2.0.5 and only 0,35 dps in 2.2.0.7 increase by enabling Thistle tea. With no speed increase from buffs i get 7.3 dps increase in 2.2.0.7...
I found out that only 1 Swiftstrike piece is Bind on Equip, the other one is Bind when picked Up. Although the patterns and 1 kind of mats drop in the Black Temple.
Might it be an idea to put these items in the "Black Temple"-category? As it's undoable to buy these items from the AH. And if they are on it, they prolly will be like 1000g+.
Might it be an idea to put these items in the "Black Temple"-category? As it's undoable to buy these items from the AH. And if they are on it, they prolly will be like 1000g+.
Well as long as it's BoE you can get it, it just depends on who you know, how much you would be willing to pay and how long you would be willing to wait.
I wouldn't mind to pay even 2000g+ for the Swiftstrike Bracers.
Nevertheless, you are right, the Swiftstrke Shoulders should be in the Leatherworking AND Black Temple Category, the Bracers not (imo).
I found out that only 1 Swiftstrike piece is Bind on Equip, the other one is Bind when picked Up. Although the patterns and 1 kind of mats drop in the Black Temple.
Might it be an idea to put these items in the "Black Temple"-category? As it's undoable to buy these items from the AH. And if they are on it, they prolly will be like 1000g+.
Pff, high progress server. I've seen prices of 5000g+ for the SSC/TK BoE patterns.
Pff, high progress server. I've seen prices of 5000g+ for the SSC/TK BoE patterns.
high progress server? lol, the best guild on our server has just entered The Eye or something. I have no clue about the price, but I was talking about the mats, as it needs "Heart of Darness" which drops in BT.
I'd like to bring up how the spreadsheet ( current and older version) models mutilate. I don't feel that it is all that accurate for that purpose. I was bored with mutilate and being subpar on DPS on Hydross and VR annoys me ( im competitive!). So, I switched from Machazeen and Emerald Ripper ( dual mongoose)41/20 spec to BigBadWolf's Paw with Fiery and OH Malchazeen 20/41 fist spec . ( I have been daggers for nearly 2 years straight, wanted a change of pace.) Everything else stayed the same. I find it odd that the spreadsheet has switching to fist spec like i did as an expected DPS gain of around 100 DPS or so.
In practice, this is not the case, my DPS certainly was higher as mutilate. And I certainly was surprised to see a subpar mainhand like BBW paw with fiery come as close as it did with mutilate. It performed fairly well ( a 1.8 speed offhand, i definitely do not like having for Combat Potency) but my issue is really with the spreadsheet modeling of mutilate. It puts my expected DPS around 1230 or so as mutilate, and with that terrible pairing of BBW and Machazeen offhand around 1330. However, in practice I feel that in my case, mutilate is definitely more DPS. I know it is all anecdotal, but it feels as if mutilate is undervalued in the spreadhseet. Perhaps there is some room for improvement in the spreadsheets model for mutilate usage.
I am using this spreadsheet for a long time now, but since u change ur Version Number to 2.x I got a problem. Before, Sword Combat could easily outdps everything in ur spreadsheet. I compared Dagger Combat with Vashj and Mercilles Shiv vs. Talon and Mercilles Quickblade and the Sword Spec won easy by about 100dps. But since Version 2.x and the realease of the PTR Patchnotes Sword DPS decreased heavily in your spreadsheet and become even lower than Dagger. I know about the "nerf" in 2.2 for Swords but do u really think the dps decrease is so much with 2.2? As I understand the Patchnotes the "nerf" only means that the chance u got an extra attack of an extra attack, which means 5% of 5%, is removed.
What I have red in several other forums is that also on the PTR Swords still is in front of Dagger by a large number, but ur Spreadsheet distract me, so I need a little bit help for my decision to go Sword or stay Dagger in the reason of maximising DPS.
Sorry for the Nub question but this is the first time I've used the rogue DPS sheet. Its really easy to use so far except for one thing. How do I select weapons other than Daggers?
I've read the Intro with the note: "- On the right side you can enter the droplocations of your items (which Items should be shown) and here you must enter the Weapontype of your Mainhand and Offhand Weapon (only the choosen Weapontype will be shown in the dropdown)."
However, I'm not understanding what it is getting at because when I scroll to the right and click on the "Type" cell, where dagger is listed, there is no option to switch it to swords or fists, etc. Where is the option to switch weapon type actually located?
I I know about the "nerf" in 2.2 for Swords but do u really think the dps decrease is so much with 2.2? As I understand the Patchnotes the "nerf" only means that the chance u got an extra attack of an extra attack, which means 5% of 5%, is removed.
(sry for my bad english)
In one of the last patches the sword procs also got changed from counting as yellow attacks back to white, which means they can now glance (again). That might account for the dps loss.
Originally Posted by Macblade
Sorry for the Nub question but this is the first time I've used the rogue DPS sheet. Its really easy to use so far except for one thing. How do I select weapons other than Daggers?
I've read the Intro with the note: "- On the right side you can enter the droplocations of your items (which Items should be shown) and here you must enter the Weapontype of your Mainhand and Offhand Weapon (only the choosen Weapontype will be shown in the dropdown)."
However, I'm not understanding what it is getting at because when I scroll to the right and click on the "Type" cell, where dagger is listed, there is no option to switch it to swords or fists, etc. Where is the option to switch weapon type actually located?
Hmm the weapon options should be located in cell Y44/45 in the Gear/Buffs tab, is that the one you've tried to click? Just asking because I myself had to look for a bit with all the options and colorful cells around Should be a dropdown menu btw.
Last edited by BlackCadian : 07/24/07 at 5:34 AM.
"If teh alliance had shamens, we wud win more battlegrounses" - random ally (Pre BC)
In one of the last patches the sword procs also got changed from counting as yellow attacks back to white, which means they can now glance (again). That might account for the dps loss.
Thats correct, but altough Swords was still in front of dagger first with the release of the Patchnotes for 2.2, the DPS decreased so heavily. The change back to glancing attacks were very early after the huge "Sword Patch" which put them on the top, so I don't think this change was implemented with Version 2.X of the Spreadsheet.
Does anyone have some owne calculation on how big the DPS decrease is now really for swords, with 2.1 and the 2.2 Patch ? I always wanted to specc Swords and in the last few weeks many rogues like Ippon or the Nihilum rogues changed to Swords, because of the huge DPS increase, but it is possible that Blizzard fixed this already and Dagger become equal or a little bit better again ?
I'd like to bring up how the spreadsheet ( current and older version) models mutilate. I don't feel that it is all that accurate for that purpose. I was bored with mutilate and being subpar on DPS on Hydross and VR annoys me ( im competitive!). So, I switched from Machazeen and Emerald Ripper ( dual mongoose)41/20 spec to BigBadWolf's Paw with Fiery and OH Malchazeen 20/41 fist spec . ( I have been daggers for nearly 2 years straight, wanted a change of pace.) Everything else stayed the same. I find it odd that the spreadsheet has switching to fist spec like i did as an expected DPS gain of around 100 DPS or so.
In practice, this is not the case, my DPS certainly was higher as mutilate. And I certainly was surprised to see a subpar mainhand like BBW paw with fiery come as close as it did with mutilate. It performed fairly well ( a 1.8 speed offhand, i definitely do not like having for Combat Potency) but my issue is really with the spreadsheet modeling of mutilate. It puts my expected DPS around 1230 or so as mutilate, and with that terrible pairing of BBW and Machazeen offhand around 1330. However, in practice I feel that in my case, mutilate is definitely more DPS. I know it is all anecdotal, but it feels as if mutilate is undervalued in the spreadhseet. Perhaps there is some room for improvement in the spreadsheets model for mutilate usage.
Build better one, I haven't any Idea were there are issues. The problem is SealFate, with SealFate there is a huge Luck Factor.
Well I think the finisher DPS is to low, most of the time there will be SnD, fin, fin, SnD (by 4CP). But I can do what I want, I never get higher then SnD, fin, SnD.
And maybe the given cycle aren't the best choice. But I have no Idea to make them better. The old Mutilatecycle in Version 2.5 had the problem, there were only 2 choices, not more, so I've tried to make new, but it's not easy.
Originally Posted by Sabotage
Thats correct, but altough Swords was still in front of dagger first with the release of the Patchnotes for 2.2, the DPS decreased so heavily. The change back to glancing attacks were very early after the huge "Sword Patch" which put them on the top, so I don't think this change was implemented with Version 2.X of the Spreadsheet.
Does anyone have some owne calculation on how big the DPS decrease is now really for swords, with 2.1 and the 2.2 Patch ? I always wanted to specc Swords and in the last few weeks many rogues like Ippon or the Nihilum rogues changed to Swords, because of the huge DPS increase, but it is possible that Blizzard fixed this already and Dagger become equal or a little bit better again ?
I have added the change for 2.2 yet. Next time I'll wait unti the patch goes live. But it was only 1 DPS, so don't know if this is the problem.
Well some time I'll have to look about all that procs and will change this that it will work better, but I haven't enough time to make such a huge chance at the moment (and in the current version are still bugs, these have to correct first).
Build better one, I haven't any Idea were there are issues. The problem is SealFate, with SealFate there is a huge Luck Factor.
Well I think the finisher DPS is to low, most of the time there will be SnD, fin, fin, SnD (by 4CP). But I can do what I want, I never get higher then SnD, fin, SnD.
And maybe the given cycle aren't the best choice. But I have no Idea to make them better. The old Mutilatecycle in Version 2.5 had the problem, there were only 2 choices, not more, so I've tried to make new, but it's not easy.
DOn't get me wrong, I'm certainly not complaining. Just looking for a little more insight. It's still a highly useful tool, far beyond anything I could ever come up with
I know the Mutilate cycle aren't the best and they're not 100% accurate to the game. In my last test it was around the same values so I let it be.
I hope I have some time a good Idea to make them better (the finisher problem for example) but until this moment it is the best I can do for those cycle.
Hmm the weapon options should be located in cell Y44/45 in the Gear/Buffs tab, is that the one you've tried to click? Just asking because I myself had to look for a bit with all the options and colorful cells around Should be a dropdown menu btw.
Thank you for the cell reference number. I was looking to the right but not far enough down. A very small suggestion to help the Nubs like me would be to change:
"- On the right side you can enter the droplocations of your items (which Items should be shown) and here you must enter the Weapontype of your Mainhand and Offhand Weapon (only the choosen Weapontype will be shown in the dropdown)."
To:
"- On the right side and down you can enter the droplocations of your items (which Items should be shown) and here you must enter the Weapontype of your Mainhand and Offhand Weapon (only the choosen Weapontype will be shown in the dropdown)."
One thing I was wondering for some time now is: what exactly is the "total dps" value.
Does it only calculate the "maximum possible dps in one moment" or the "maximum possible sustined dps" (which I think it does)? If the latter is true, then were is the fight duration calculated?
The reason I ask is, because with my given gear, the sheet tells me a max raidbuffed dps of nearly 1550dps is possible. Nevertheless, it astonishes and frustrates me when I "only" reach 1150dps on Tidewalker (best dps-test for Melee imo), even if I am quite lucky with his watery graves.
OK, it just might not be perfect timing on my side, but I can't do more than follow the cycles (1 SnD/5r) and pop CDs, Drums, Hastepots etc. I just don't see where I could loose nearly 400dps (more than 1/3rd of my total dps). I could understand losing 1-200dps due to bad luck, bad timing etc, but not up to 400.
The spreadsheet, as far as I know, calculates sustained damage in a theoretically infinite fight where all debuffs/damage modifiers are kept up infinitely with 0 margin of error. Not only for debuffs like sunder, which is pretty much kept up all the time, but also for things like Unleashed Rage and Ferocious Inspiration, which can and will fall off from time to time. Sure, YOU may be DPSing like mad on Morogrim for the entire duration, but if the enhance shaman in your group gets chain graved and you lose windfury and UR for a substantial amount of time, that will have a marked impact on your DPS.
You might be adding one or two debuffs which you don't normally receive; just CoR and UR for example, are two debuffs I don't normally raid with which would equal a nearly 200 DPS increase for me.
Purely anecdotal, but the spreadsheet is also somewhat inaccurate for me, although not to the extent that you've described. I personally experience about a ~50 DPS inaccuracy when raiding compared to what the sheet says I should get.
Just a fast kudos - didn't actually see this sheet until a few days ago. Good work - sad it doesn't work 100% in Open Office, but still very good work of course :-)
A couple of spelling errors, just in case you hadn't seen them yet:
Temp enchants:
- Conscerated Sharpening Stone (vs. Undead) -> Consecrated Sharpening Stone (vs. Undead)
Gems:
- Crismon Sun -> Crimson Sun
I have a couple of pieces of gear not on the list, but they're old and useless anyway, so I can add those manually, just for bonus overview :-) (even if I haven't COMPLETELY figured out what's going on, on the right side of the sheet)
What's the procrate of Seal Fate according to your charts? I've looked through, but feel a bit walled by the massive amounts of information. That's a good thing though, but kinda hard to work through, so figured it easier to ask ;-)
I tried using Instant VII on both hands, for testing - but get a Divide by 0 -error. Same goes for Anasthetic. Even combining Anasthetic with Instant = #Div/0 - I'm aware that's not a very effective combination, but I'm curious what goes wrong there.
What's the procrate of Seal Fate according to your charts? I've looked through, but feel a bit walled by the massive amounts of information. That's a good thing though, but kinda hard to work through, so figured it easier to ask ;-)
The problem with Seal Fate is that it's governed by the rogue's crit rate. It's not about proccing at all. It's about critting, and critting with your CP-producing abilities. Every time you crit with an ability, Seal Fate gives you an extra CP. That's that. The problem then is in what you do with those CP -- how you effectively use them, etc. It's also going to be difficult to measure how it gains well alongside other aspects of a Mutilate build... notably how those CP gains affect the energy you gain from Relentless Strikes.
All in all, it's a pain to try and formulate something viable and accurate.
The progress of the sheet is really great. Still I would like to do another suggestion =)
Currently the dps is calculated assuming the meta gem is working. Alltho every meta gem has a requirement which needs certain types of gems. Now if I want to upgrade my gems I look at the sheet and press the "upgrade gem" button. But I got 2 blue gems which I don't wanna replace with a red/yellow one, otherwise my relentless earthstorm diamond doesn't work anymore.
Now what I want to suggest is: Is it possible to add a check to see if the meta gem works and activate when the right gems are in ur gear? Then it's easier to see which gems are a real upgrade if the sheet keeps the requirement of the meta gem in mind.
It's possible. But you could just keep track of what gems you have in your gear, and if you don't meet the requirements for your meta gem just change that slot to "none".
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
First I would like to thank you for this wonderful tool that this spreadsheet is, It did boost my DPS in raids and 5 man party's.
However, is there a way to calculate our dps when we are grinding? Should I use unbuffed and non boss as a close example, or just improve AP for max dmg in short time to a single, non boss, mob?
What happened to all the neck slot items? I haven't been lucky enough to get the Worgen Claw neck to drop in kara and I passed on the Saberclaw Talisman since the Insignia of the Mag'Hari hero is ~ as good.
Do you remove items to save space? It kinda sucks for us noobs who are trying to do the best we can with what we got.
07/23/07, 12:08 PM
Should be a dropdown menu btw.
Similar Threads
