I'd take Setup for the free Combopoints we get when using CoS.
Also I don't see any problems with him parsing in his gear, as long he provides stats and such. Actually, I think it's great with parsing at different levels of gear, that way you can swiftly overview which one scales better.
I'd take Setup for the free Combopoints we get when using CoS.
Also I don't see any problems with him parsing in his gear, as long he provides stats and such. Actually, I think it's great with parsing at different levels of gear, that way you can swiftly overview which one scales better.
Sure, but thats why I found it odd why he buffed up
First of all from what I see on armory you have a AP around 1300! How on earth can your get that unbuffed AP up to +2.4 k with some food?
Why I dont like that test is because it can end up totally wrong even if you doing a before and after test. The fact is with "bad" gear combat specc can be superior to Hemo and there for I said its not a valid test.
Thanks for the clarification.
The gear I am using on test server adds +100 AP over what I have on live (didn't have warp-spring coil at time I copied) plus using a few other pieces with better AP on them. Unbuffed on Test I had ~1750 AP combat spec'd and ~2000 with Hemo Spec. Believe I used 1 flask + warp burger. Plus my trinkets have additional AP boosts with a short cooldown, plus double mongoose. With full proc's I had 2350 AP under Hemo Spec.
But basically despite all of that, you are saying that Hemo is going to scale a lot better with gear than combat spec?
Edit: Found the problem with my stats on Armory. I didn't repair after our last raid so several items weren't being shown. Actual stats are 1703-120Flask for 1583 AP, 21.79% crit, 268 hit rating. I swapped out my helm for a better pure AP one on PTR plus I had a trinket with 50 more AP on it due to not having my warpspring at the time. Hope that clarifies things a lil bit. I did have 1950 AP with my gear/socketed before swapping out a lot of stuff to add + hit.
For mages, frost is within 3% of fire next patch and they get Ice Block, and most of them are still going with fire. It's nice to see that subtlety is getting closer, but I think it still needs some PvE love.
That's because while people have (eventually) learnt not to wear pure glass cannon gear, they're still wedded to glass cannon specs. Bit silly, since you'd think the same lesson applies to both.
Unless you're butting up against an enrage timer, more DPS is not always the answer. Yes, more DPS means quicker kills and less chance of random deaths/wipes. But if that extra DPS comes at too great a survivability cost, you may end up with a increased chance of "random" deaths/wipes because the margins just got cut too fine.
I'd like to see what other intangible benefits Shadowstep brings to rogue DPS too before I judge. There are lots of mobility fights out there. Think about Shadowstep at Lurker after add phases, or when moving between adds at Karathress, or on elemental duty at Vashj. After every single Shatter on Gruul, after every single Whirlwind on Leotheras... the list goes on.
You only need to save a very few seconds of movement time to make a significant change to your DPS. On a 10-minute fight, 6 saved seconds is 1% increase in total DPS. I reckon you'd get that pretty much every time you switch targets using SS. That's 3-4% on a Lurker fight, same for Karathress. Probably closer to 10% on a Gruul fight (and you'd never die to Shatter due to Cheat Death). Much more than 10% on Vashj elementals - it would make rogues actually usable on the sides.
Think about it - there's a reason rogues use Cat's Speed rather than Dexterity on boots, and that's only a couple of percent speed increase.
EDIT: No it's just the T6 Set Bonus added. Updated tooltips for the lose : )
<3 Hey headhuntress!...
Another nice change if thats in fact true... I cant seem to see/find any information saying that its been buffed again though on WoR or MMO-Champion. How come it says 132 to 133%?
I wonder what the effect of Cheat Death on Teron Gorefiend's Shadow of Death would be. Since you aren't really dead while controlling your Vengeful Spirit, my best guess is it won't work. Would surely suck if you don't 'die' but Shadowy Constructs do spawn. Or perhaps Cheat Death kicks in after the Spirit is destroyed, either restoring control of your character (ok) or back to the spirit (awesome).
I wonder what the effect of Cheat Death on Teron Gorefiend's Shadow of Death would be. Since you aren't really dead while controlling your Vengeful Spirit, my best guess is it won't work. Would surely suck if you don't 'die' but Shadowy Constructs do spawn. Or perhaps Cheat Death kicks in after the Spirit is destroyed, either restoring control of your character (ok) or back to the spirit (awesome).
Shadow doesn't kill you via damage, it's a deathtouch. Cheat Death wouldn't affect it.
Another nice change if thats in fact true... I cant seem to see/find any information saying that its been buffed again though on WoR or MMO-Champion. How come it says 132 to 133%?
I'd take Setup for the free Combopoints we get when using CoS.
Also I don't see any problems with him parsing in his gear, as long he provides stats and such. Actually, I think it's great with parsing at different levels of gear, that way you can swiftly overview which one scales better.
Myah, it was a quick spec to just show how it should be in general, I was doing an instance at the same time so didn't pay too much attention to the filler points.
One question i have been wondering is which is(or why is) more beneficial; 5/5 sword spec and 1/2 dirty deeds or 4/5 sword spec and 2/2 dirty deeds. Is 1% more chance to get a sword spec proc greater than an additional 10% to yellow sub 35%? You still get the 2/2 wep expertise either way.
Now, with the changes to Hemo, and Weapon Expertise, not to mention all the new spec's floating about, I have another question.
Would the 5 expertise rating gained from 1 point in Weapon Expertise be better than prep (in a raid environment)? Or 4/5 Sword, 2/2 Weapon Expertise,
For instance, 11/27/23 vs. 11/26/24 vs. 11/27/23
Without AR, you would only be prepping BF? Occasional sprint, but nothing that would determine a huge change in DPS. Would the consistant +5/10 Expertise rating surpass the ability to kill a CD? Or rather, the 10 Expertise rating outweigh 1% extra sword proc, and the ability to kill a CD.
Also, another question (that should probably be whole other topic - sorry) does armor penetration scale well? Serrated blades, mixed with Warp-Spring, 2.3 ZA/Heroic gear, and Executioner all provide a huge amount of armor penetration. If one were to spec hemo, would armor penetration be worth the effort, or would haste still out-scale it in the long run.
I'm currently at 8.4% haste (passive), and I'm curious to see if it's worth continuing to add to that collection.
Now, with the changes to Hemo, and Weapon Expertise, not to mention all the new spec's floating about, I have another question.
Would the 5 expertise rating gained from 1 point in Weapon Expertise be better than prep (in a raid environment)? Or 4/5 Sword, 2/2 Weapon Expertise, and 3/5 Sword, 2/2 Weapon Expertise, 1/1 Prep
For instance, 11/26/24 vs. 11/27/23
Without AR, you would only be prepping BF? Occasional sprint, but nothing that would determine a huge change in DPS. Would the consistant +5 Expertise rating surpass the ability to kill a CD?
Also, another question (that should probably be whole other topic - sorry) does armor penetration scale well? Serrated blades, mixed with Warp-Spring, 2.3 ZA/Heroic gear, and Executioner all provide a huge amount of armor penetration. If one were to spec hemo, would armor penetration be worth the effort, or would haste still out-scale it in the long run.
I'm currently at 8.4% haste (passive), and I'm curious to see if it's worth continuing to add to that collection.
Prep doesn't reset Bladeflurry so in an 11/2x/2x build prep has little to no raid utility.
That's because while people have (eventually) learnt not to wear pure glass cannon gear, they're still wedded to glass cannon specs. Bit silly, since you'd think the same lesson applies to both.
Unless you're butting up against an enrage timer, more DPS is not always the answer. Yes, more DPS means quicker kills and less chance of random deaths/wipes. But if that extra DPS comes at too great a survivability cost, you may end up with a increased chance of "random" deaths/wipes because the margins just got cut too fine.
I'd like to see what other intangible benefits Shadowstep brings to rogue DPS too before I judge. There are lots of mobility fights out there. Think about Shadowstep at Lurker after add phases, or when moving between adds at Karathress, or on elemental duty at Vashj. After every single Shatter on Gruul, after every single Whirlwind on Leotheras... the list goes on.
You only need to save a very few seconds of movement time to make a significant change to your DPS. On a 10-minute fight, 6 saved seconds is 1% increase in total DPS. I reckon you'd get that pretty much every time you switch targets using SS. That's 3-4% on a Lurker fight, same for Karathress. Probably closer to 10% on a Gruul fight (and you'd never die to Shatter due to Cheat Death). Much more than 10% on Vashj elementals - it would make rogues actually usable on the sides.
Think about it - there's a reason rogues use Cat's Speed rather than Dexterity on boots, and that's only a couple of percent speed increase.
In my opinion, we survived without Cheat Death before, and we can survive without it now.
@ Rupp: You really should be running a more raid optimal spec to get best results. Since you're using swords. that would be 11/28/22.
Yeah, that's what I thought, I couldn't remember properly if it did or not though.
So, then it moves to the above spec, 11/27/23 or 11/28/22.
I guess my question is the same as Grail, would 1% extra chance to proc sword outweigh 10% more damage to a target 35% health or lower.
I would assume 2/2 DD is > 5/5 sword, but It's hard to tell because of the length of some of the fights.
Note that it's only yellow damage that is affected by dirty deeds. If it were ALL damage, dirty deeds would be heads above any other talent on the same tier in any tree. That's a good question, though. Sword spec scales well, but losing 1% chance to proc to gain an additional 10% to hemo at sub 35% is something to look into. Actually, now that I think about it, shouldn't that affect rupture as well? It very well may be worth losing 1% to sword spec for that extra 10%.
In my opinion, we survived without Cheat Death before, and we can survive without it now.
@ Rupp: You really should be running a more raid optimal spec to get best results. Since you're using swords. that would be 11/28/22.
This is exactly why I'm not sold on taking cheat death over some incredible DPS talents. What did you do before the new cheat death? Plenty of rogues out there in MH/BT are surviving fine without it, so I'm still not sure where the logic is in doing less DPS for a 1 minute CD "OH SHI" proc when you screw up.
Of course there are those fights that are less melee friendly with random effects (Azgalor RoF, Archi's doomfire, etc), but this has never stopped guilds from killing these bosses, or kept rogues from living through the fight.
Overall, I'm still mostly interested in how Weapon Expertise and DD compare.
Deadliness beats Sword Spec, so how big is the actual difference between WE and DD?
As for Prep vs Sword Spec. That's a matter of DPS or Utility. More damage, or an extra vanish & evasion.
11/05/07, 10:07 AM
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