I am just theorizing what it might take to get combat specs back into line with what they should be and these were my ideas.

Dagger Specialization:

1/2/3/4/5% Chance on hit to penetrate 700-1200 armor for 10 seconds. (10 second hidden cool down)Something like this, balanced to be giving daggers slightly greater damage than an equally geared sword rogue because of their positional etc. sacrifices in and outside of raids.

Fist Specialization:

1/2/3/4/5% Chance on hit to increase haste rating by 200-400 for 10 seconds. (10 second hidden cool down) Something that buffs fists spec to give them EQUAL damage to Sword specs instead of observed lesser damage.

This was just free-form thought on the subject and I was wondering what others would suggest to give them balance. I am a Sword rogue and have been forever. So no bias given on my part.


I also know about the rogue dps spreadsheet and gear spreadsheet threads. This is a specific issue that I thought deserved special discussion. The buffs given may or may not be inline with what would be considered a buff over 5% crit, so I leave you to help in that regard. Other ideas for this would be great. I also feel that Mace Specialization is fine as-is for pvp purposes. I also don't feel that swords should be nerfed any because we were given buffs to raid damage through glancing blow reduction for a reason.

With the changes to sword spec in 2.2 (no extra attack proc-on-proc) the difference between sword spec and dagger/fist spec will be nowhere near as dramatic as it is now, and makes it so that a change to dagger/fist spec is unnecessary. If any weapon spec is in need of a bit of PvE loving it's mace spec, but seeing as how it's already the preferred PvP combat spec (with the added utility of a stun proc) it's unlikely that it would get too much of a DPS boost, if anything at all.

Except that Mace is explicitly the "not PvE" weapon spec. I really don't see Dagger as needing a PvE boost at the moment. Thus, if 2.2 doesn't level the playing field, you know where my stance is.

The change to not get an extra attack chain was so rare that it was insignificant damage usually. I was under the impression that it was just a reintroduced bug after the last few sword spec changes(sword spec as yellow damage<not glanced, no swing timer reset, 8%miss rate>, and sword spec as white again<swing timer not reset, 25.5% missrate>)


5% of 5% is what? .25% chance
20%(windfury) of 5% is 1% so you have a 1.25% chance to get a chain.

You also have to take into consideration that OH sword spec procs cause a MH swing and, therefore, also have a chance to proc either an extra MH SS proc or WF proc.

EDIT: Forgot to include the fact that WF attacks also had the ability to proc Sword Spec.

True, but you see windfury procs can proc sword spec procs.


Sword Specialization: This talent’s free extra attacks can no longer trigger additional extra attacks.


Says nothing about windfury. All the OH proc is preventing is that MH SS swing from becomming another sword spec.

I think that the bottom half of the combat tree needs a lot of work to make it interesting. Items like blade twisting need to be removed or buffed (the dazed effect should penetrate blessing of freedom), and the items like fear/stun resist need to be moved farther up the tree (this should be a tier 0/1 talent) and replaced with something that rewards rogues for going so far down the combat tree.

It's note because of the specialisation. But I don't understand why we couldn't have a certain PvE viability with maces.

By the way, with the proc of Dragonstrike we have something that can be seen as a PvE Mace Specialisation.

It was given the +skill because fists was initially excluded from the +skill (making fists a horrible choice at the time), and because the freed up talent points helped Maces somewhat keep up in PvE. It's not there to be equal. It's there to be better in PvP and worse in PvE. It's just not horribly worse.

The daze should work on bosses, would make it exellent to buff tank threat, and hunter dps.
Sadly they removed that recently. 2.1.0 i think.