Even with combat log parsing it is sometimes not possible to accurately determine the number of procs for items such as Dragonspine Trophy. For example a triple-proc may appear to be a double-proc. You can alleviate these problems by automatically cancelling the Haste buff, eg with the following macro:

I obtained the following data by dual wield autoattacking Servants of Razelikh.

Unless I have made a calculation error somewhere, this seems reasonably significant evidence that DST is not ppm-based. From the first set of data, with 95% certainty we can say that the proc rate is within [2.1 - 3.4] ppm, or [2.6 - 4.3]%. From the second set of data we have [1.4 - 2.3] ppm, or [3.0 - 4.9]%.

Given the small overlap between possible ppm values, it appears that DST is % based, with a proc rate between 3.0% and 4.3%.

As I mentioned I am 100% sure that it is only miss. In Recap if you hover over the row with your DPS
you will get a popup with detailed breakdown of all skills you use with individual block,dodge,parry,miss
values.

I dont think that is a valid test.
I am wondering if +weaponskill rating on items behaves different from the talent "Weapons Expertise"
My gear does not have any item or racial +skillrating items. The only difference was the spec.
One setup without Weapons Expertise and the other with.

That seems to be the problem.

I missed alar last week. I remember being really surprised to see the word "miss" on the screen, because I was wearing 304 hit rating and had 367 skill (W/Ex, Fang of Vashj, Shoulderpads of the Stranger).

As far as I know, the final word on hit capping is that 308 + W/Ex + Precision will yield no misses, and 302 will suffice if you have 363 skill (latros, w/ex, precision).

So... how the hell did I miss? I keep wondering if I switched trinkets or ranged for trash and forgot to switch back, but I could swear I had both my WSC and my Arcanite Steam Pistol on. Does the debuff from flame patch reduce chance to hit?

Dragonspine Trophy Test

Location: Blasted Lands
Object: Servant of Razelikh

Start: 7/17 11:47:07.658
End: 7/17 12:45:10.341

Spec: 16/13/0

Weapons: Merciless Gladiator's Slicer and Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade (both enchanted with Formula: Enchant Weapon - Mongoose)

Styles: Sinister Strike and Slice and Dice

Duration: 58 minutes 2,683 seconds

procwatch shows:

104 "You gain Haste"
104 "Haste fades from you"

Hits: ~ 5.000

ppm: ~ 1,7

Only gain/fades from Dragonspine Trophy

CombatLog (complete)

So I've expecting a complete duration of 104 * 10 seconds = 1.040 seconds.


combatlog shows:

104 "You gain Haste"
104 "Haste fades from you"


0 procs with a Haste Duration under 9,829 seconds

79 procs with a Haste Duration between 9,829 seconds and 10,344 seconds

25 procs with a Haste Duration over 10,344 seconds with a runtime:


15,564 seconds
19,580 seconds
13,360 seconds
13,360 seconds
17,595 seconds
16,736 seconds
12,969 seconds
17,408 seconds
55,598 seconds (at least 6 procs in a row)
23,721 seconds
26,329 seconds
13,157 seconds
20,954 seconds
12,001 seconds
19,673 seconds
18,660 seconds
17,798 seconds
17,376 seconds
31,408 seconds (at least 4 procs in a row)
12,563 seconds
16,407 seconds
14,329 seconds
18,032 seconds
19,110 seconds
17,860 seconds

[top] 468,188 seconds

So the 79 procs are 10 second procs and all above 10,344 seconds are selfrefreshing procs.


The sum of all durations gives:

79 * 10 seconds + 468,188 seconds ~ 1.258 seconds



The Test goes 58 minutes and 2,683 seconds

So the Dragonspine Trophy haste gain per minute is:

1258 seconds / (58 * 60 seconds + 2,683 seconds)

1258 seconds / 3482,683 seconds

[top] 0,36

Dragonspine Trophy proc gives 325 Haste Rating per proc.


So the real benefit is per minute:

325 * 0,36

117 Haste rating



Taking 1.040 seconds you'll get

1040 seconds / (58 * 60 seconds + 2,683 seconds)

[top] 1040 seconds / 3482,683 seconds

0,2986

Dragonspine Trophy proc gives 325 Haste Rating per proc.


So the procwatch benefit is per minute:

325 * 0,2986 = 97,045 Haste rating

Thundering Skyfire Diamond was determined to be 1.1PPM in the thread about it a while back.

I one of the major issues is the variance in STYLE of testing that's being done. Many of us aren't really as good at statistics, so getting a pre-defined test that we can then just go and run (if we have the gear to meet the test's conditions) might be helpful.

For example:

"DST Proc Test: Servant of Raz, 250+ hit rating (for 0 misses), any 350+ weaponskill, no weapon specs, auto attacks only, at least 5000 swings with a single 2.6 speed weapon, another 5000 swings with a single 1.3 speed weapon" (This is an EXAMPLE - I'm not that great at making these up) ...

I think if we had a few defined tests, and people could just post combat logs from them, it'd get a LOT more swings in, in what's hopefully a controlled environment. At least for proc rates on items that would seem to help the most.

Recommended test methodology:

1) Go to Blasted Lands. Locate an area with no mobs near a Servant. Clear any trash mobs that are in the way.
2) Remove your OH
3) Type /combatlog.
4) Pull the Servant. Kite it to your empty area.
5) Attack it for a while. SS spam, keep SnD up, etc. I wouldn't recommend using other finishers (Eviscerate/Rupture/etc.) as I've had the perception that they have sort of unusual proc behavior, so probably just do SS spam + SnD.
6) At some point you will need to stop and heal. This can be done by blind + bandage, vanish + eat + repull, finding some really bored healer to sit there and dump heals on you, or whatever.
7) When you're done (for best results, you'd want to get a good hour or so of attacks on the mob), type /combatlog again.
8) After you log out the next time, go to your World of Warcraft/Logs directory, grab the WoWCombatLog.txt file, and post it to your favorite file hosting site (Savefile or whatever).
9) Post the link to it in this thread, and let the theorycrafters go to town.

Yeah, weapon skill is still an open question. I avoided including it here since it already has 2 threads of it's own, but if people want to test it here that would be great.

What I'd really like to see is a repeat of the pally/Venoxis experiment with 2 rogues dual-wielding, with the rogues standing on top of each other so as to remove any positional effects. With dual-wielded 1.3 speed weapons rogues should be able to get a pretty large data set without requiring excessive time.


Under the best known model of weapon skill, the set bonuses score better. But there is certainly still stuff going on with weapon skill that we may not understand.

That's very interesting. I'd be curious to see numbers for a larger data set to tighten up those ranges. Definitely seems like the correct way to go about testing it.

I posted this in your spreadsheet thread, and as a user of the Rod I'm relatively certain that this still holds true:

That was the data out of my Proc Watch, and if needed I may be able to find a SS of it, but I am not sure if I still have one. In over a month since having the Rod, It doesn't feel as if the chance has changed at all, still a relatively crappy proc for what seems like a cool idea.

Still a fun weapon though!

In response to losing hit% without weapon skill...
I recall in one of the Rogue Discussion replies (or the Warrior/Rogue Weapon Skill discussion) someone making the claim that the chance to miss per weapon skill doubles if your weapon skill is not within 10 of the target. Thus, based on the 0.1% to hit per weapon skill difference (as postulated), against a level 63 (boss), the base miss chance would actually be 27% if you only have 350 weapon skill vs. 25.5% with at least 5 weapon skill. That could account for the additional miss chance you seemed to have.

Since I regularly find myself explaining why combat daggers is no longer the top dps spec I decided to do some testing to make sure I wasn't lying about the extra procs. Obviously you get 50% more ss than bs which means more chances to proc but in addition to that: does each special with a slow mh weapon have a higher chance to proc a ppm effect than each special with a fast weapon? Since testing bs is a lot more annoying I decided to simply test ss with 2 different weapon speeds, hopefully bs doesn't have any special proccing mechanic.

Anyway I got 2 maces with no dps stats (not swords because i have sword spec and I'm paranoid), one at 2.9 and one at 1.7 speed, best I could find on ah. Also used an offhand item for no real reason. I decided to use both dragonspine and romulos at the same time to give a bit of extra data since I knew the number of hits would not be quite big enough and since there doesn't seem to be any solid consensus on whether they are actually ppm or not. I went to pick up one of Razelikhs finest and turned myself so as not to get any white hits. Logged about an hours worth of ss spam with each weapon. Used blind+bandage and the occasional vanish+eat, I turned off the logging after each vanish and started again when I had him back in position. In order to not get any hidden double haste procs I stopped the ss spam every time I got haste and resumed when it faded, I forgot once or twice but I'm fairly sure I didn't get any refreshing procs.

2.9 speed mh:
1003 ss
47 Romulo procs - 4.69%
45 Haste - 4.49%

1.7 speed mh:
899 ss
23 Romulo procs - 2.56%
24 Haste - 2.67%

WWS links:
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

If anyone wants the logs themselves I can ofc upload them somewhere.

I know the sample size is not big enough but look at the pretty numbers! They're so pretty! It certainly looks like both procs are ppm and that mh speed does indeed affect the proc rate of specials. They also seem to have very similar proc rates. In any case I at least managed to convince myself so I thought I'd share.

One interesting result I had not even considered was the fact that I got 0 procs from my Thundering meta gem during over 2h of ss spam. It did however proc on a white hit when I repulled the servant after eating, this happened twice. I guess it's safe to say that it doesn't proc from specials. On the whole procs seem a bit weird and inconsistent...

Miss% against Hydross.
Rogue 41/20/0; 278 hit. Dualwielding daggers. No item with +dagger or Weaponsexpertise.
Only autoattacks counted

444 crits, 846 hits, 0 blocks, 487 glances, 113 misses, 105 dodges, 28 parries,
2023 total attacks
554579 damage, 274.136925 damage per swing
219753 hit damage, 259.755319 hit damage per swing
94591 glance damage, 194.232033 glance damage per swing
21.948% crits
41.819% hits
0.000% blocks
24.073% glancings
5.586% misses
5.190% dodges
1.384% parries

Miss% is way off the predicted 2.87%
Any filehoster besides filefront or savefile for uploading combatlog?