[Rogue] Mechanics Testing Thread - Page 4

Punkrocker · 08/03/07, 12:11 PM

Here's a question that I've been struggling with lately.

Haste vs Hit

I have been able to acquire 2 of the haste rings from BT trash, but with some of the new gear my hit is suffering. Here's a log of Gurtogg from last night:

Loading...

I should note in that wws parse that neither of the rogues got the rage from bloodboil, so that's straight up normal damage.

TLR is a sword spec rogue and I am *gasp* mace spec. I'm specced for pvp right now, but here's my spec from last night:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

TLR has an edge in gear and he's hit capped, but I have a lot more haste.

You can't really compare the two of us very easily right now, but in a couple of weeks I'll have the gladiator mh and probably the oh as well, the maces were just an interim solution since I didn't really do arena in season 1. It appears to me though that a rough guesstimate as far as haste vs. hit would be in the neighborhood of 2 haste rating to 1 hit rating.

Obviously we need a LOT more data than just one wws parse and a comparison between two different rogues, but you can look at the number of combat potency procs to see that while my miss percentage was almost double that of an (almost) hit capped rogue I got quite a few more potency procs without the benefit of sword spec on my offhand.

Anyone have some good ideas on how to accurately test this? I'd like to get a much larger sample size but that's hard to do in a raiding situation. I only have maces right now for mh/oh, but as I stated before I'll have swords in a couple of weeks, however for mapping pure hasts vs hit you wouldn't want sword spec procs skewing your sample.

• Aldriana · 08/03/07, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by Grunge

14) What is the procrate (percent?) for Warp-spring Coil? Also is there any difference to the procrate (percent?) when using Mutilate vs Combat (Mutilate is considered as 2 specials?)

Unconfirmed: Wowhead comments suggest 25%? True, False?

15) Does Warp-spring Coil have a internal cooldown? If yes then how long is it?

Unconfirmed: Again Wowhead comments offer us a 20second internal cooldown. Can anyone confirm this?

Conventional wisdom is that it has a proc rate of 25%, and a 30 sec internal cooldown. I have no reason to doubt this, but if someone has data that makes them think otherwise, feel free to post it.

16) How to model Ashtongue Talisman for mutilate rogues? Currently one spreadsheet does not support mutilate and the other one (In my humble opinion) undervalues it the trinket for that spec.

Edit. Uh actually I'm not sure about the 16), does the question belong here? While it is a general question it falls more towards one of the spreadsheets. The final decision rests with you I guess.

Modeling questions should probably go in the spreadsheet threads. I can't really comment on the Rogue DPS sheet, but speaking as the author of a the Rogue Gear sheet: it seems straightforward to model to me, assuming you already have a mutilate model; however, mutilate is fundamentally a pain in the you-know-where to model (due partly to the fact that Mutilate complicates things, but even more so because Seal Fate is a ludicrous pain to model). So, if I ever get around to implementing the high-end assassination tree in that sheet, I will have an accurate model for it; however, I don't expect to have such a thing anytime soon if ever.

Originally Posted by Punkrocker

Here's a question that I've been struggling with lately.

Haste vs Hit

<snip>

Anyone have some good ideas on how to accurately test this? I'd like to get a much larger sample size but that's hard to do in a raiding situation. I only have maces right now for mh/oh, but as I stated before I'll have swords in a couple of weeks, however for mapping pure hasts vs hit you wouldn't want sword spec procs skewing your sample.

This is, again, more of a spreadsheet question; both spreadsheets have functionality to describe the incremental value of a point of a given stat, so I'd suggest pulling up your favorite sheet and exploring the question for yourself.

Punkrocker · 08/03/07, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

This is, again, more of a spreadsheet question; both spreadsheets have functionality to describe the incremental value of a point of a given stat, so I'd suggest pulling up your favorite sheet and exploring the question for yourself.

Actually, you might be correct, but theorycrafting can only take you so far since there may be mechanics that aren't quite understood or that we lack sufficient data on. I'll use spreadsheets as a base starting point, but from there I want data (preferably lots of it) to add to the spreadsheets to tweak my build.

For instance, Combat Maces is, according to the sheets, the worst pve build you can have, yet I'm able to make it work do to having certain pieces (KT mace), quite a bit of haste and running with a shaman pretty much full time in our raid groups. Would I be doing even more damage by swapping out the maces with a couple of swords? Obviously I would, but having only two talons drop in all our SSC runs and not having seen any swords from Hyjal yet, my options are limited to the arena swords which I don't have the points for yet.

Incidentally, and I know others have tested this, but over 21,000 hits according to ProcMeter the KT mace is within .3% of the same procrate as dual mongoose, but ONLY when I have windfury. I'm not home but mongoose had a procrate of about 2.5% and the KT mace had a procrate of 2.2%. When I solo the procrat drops a little due to a lesser number of mainhand hits.

Itzelsnitch · 08/05/07, 12:11 PM

I have been testing [The Bladefist] today, finding following so far:

- White attacks only
- "Uptime" was used for monitoring the proc uptime.
- No other haste procs were present (no TSD, DST).

37:43 total runtime.
16.70% uptime.

I did another test for fun with a healer. I basicly burned cooldowns, used haste items, etc. Managed to go to 30% uptime on average over 20 minutes or so.

• Aldriana · 08/05/07, 2:49 PM

I don't suppose you have a combatlog available for that test? Or if you happened to notice whether it has an internal cooldown or not?

Itzelsnitch · 08/05/07, 3:41 PM

Full Log Here

It does not, it renewed itself several times.

8/5 18:35:13.968  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:35:24.015  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:35:40.875  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:35:51.031  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:35:54.984  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:36:09.406  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:36:44.765  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:37:00.750  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:37:09.609  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:37:22.031  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:39:00.906  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:39:10.812  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:39:18.890  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:39:29.015  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:40:34.093  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:40:43.968  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:41:22.984  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:41:32.937  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:42:34.015  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:42:44.250  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:43:37.187  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:43:47.140  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:43:51.515  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:44:01.687  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:45:29.515  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:45:39.578  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:45:43.625  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:45:53.500  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:46:22.125  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:46:32.078  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:46:44.921  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:46:55.046  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:47:09.421  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:47:19.437  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:47:44.484  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:47:54.328  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:49:00.187  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:49:16.687  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:50:17.328  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:50:27.562  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:51:12.734  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:51:22.734  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:51:44.890  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:51:55.062  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 18:53:51.015  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 18:54:01.062  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:00:25.125  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:00:35.250  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:01:47.546  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:01:57.968  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:02:13.796  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:02:23.859  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:02:45.515  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:02:55.468  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:03:50.109  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:04:00.328  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:04:36.265  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:04:46.484  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:06:43.968  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:06:54.234  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:06:57.640  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:07:07.703  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:08:58.828  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:09:08.656  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:09:36.109  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:09:52.843  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:11:08.093  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:11:18.156  Bladestorm fades from you.
8/5 19:11:42.546  You gain Bladestorm.
8/5 19:11:52.515  Bladestorm fades from you.

• Aldriana · 08/06/07, 5:50 PM

Ground some numbers on assorted data in this thread today - here's what I've come up with:

Re: T5 4/5. The data set in post 41 in indicative of a proc rate of roughly 1.7% for that test; this means the proc rate could either be a flat proc rate of roughly this rate, or a PPM effect with a proc rate of roughly .5 PPM. Figuring out which is correct would probably best be done by testing with either a single weapon or two weapons of the same speed. Testing at more than one speed would also be useful; it's just a bit challenging to distill the proc rate from data when two weapons of different speeds are in use.

Re: Bladefist. As a note, it's easier to derive good data if people provide counts of total hits and procs rather than simple uptime, as it's easier to get statistical analysis out of so doing; however, based on that data in post 79, it appears to be very close to 1 PPM. If it were truly 1 PPM the expected uptime would be 15.86%, which is fairly close to the observed 16.70%. Hence, the answer is certainly "about 1 PPM", but whether it is in truth 1 PPM (=4.33%) or is instead 4% or 4.5% is impossible to determine with this data.

Lilias · 08/11/07, 4:24 AM

Anybody tested of lately if Swordspec is indeed no longer only triggered by OH Hits but does produce an OH Extrahit also?
I know some people claimed this for quite a while and have always been proven wrong, but rumour has it it really got changed this time (not mentioned in patchnotes) and considering a fist/sword combination has been _the_ dps build for a few months which I don't think was intended due to 2 weaponspecs at once being superior to using just one I'm inclined to take this as Blizzards way of fixing it.

So if anybody got logs on this, I'd love to see them. Last post in the old Fist/Swordthread (http://elitistjerks.com/440043-post53.html) mentions the change to be active too, but without any decent testing & logs there's not much to rely on.

Itzelsnitch · 08/11/07, 7:08 AM

[Warp-Spring Coil] has been reported as *NOT* having an internal cooldown from my source, and as being "up all the time". We need someone to start stabbing mobs in blasted lands!

Kapuras · 08/11/07, 7:50 AM

It has an internal CD

Example:

7/17 12:00:49.367 You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:01:04.353 Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:01:19.542 You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:01:34.340 Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:47:08.549  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 11:47:23.426  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:47:53.460  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:48:08.414  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:48:34.776  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 11:48:49.637  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:49:10.170  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 11:49:25.531  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:49:46.877  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 11:50:01.597  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:50:30.850  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 11:50:45.820  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:51:27.168  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:51:42.435  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:51:58.936  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:52:13.828  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:52:35.361  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:52:50.346  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:53:12.020  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:53:26.880  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:53:43.632  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:53:58.539  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:54:19.853  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:54:34.682  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:54:54.371  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:55:09.185  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:55:28.202  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:55:42.969  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:56:56.537  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 11:57:11.444  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:57:40.619  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:57:55.557  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:58:24.919  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 11:58:39.654  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 11:59:46.925  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:00:01.614  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:00:18.615  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:00:33.429  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:00:49.367  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:01:04.353  Perceived Weakness fades from you.


7/17 12:01:19.542  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:01:34.340  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:01:59.654  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:02:14.577  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:02:31.875  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:02:46.658  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:03:16.426  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:03:31.427  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:03:55.882  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:04:10.727  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:04:44.354  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:04:59.277  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:05:27.733  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:05:42.609  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:06:05.220  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:06:19.955  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:06:36.425  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:06:51.426  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:07:13.053  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:07:27.929  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:07:53.197  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:08:08.057  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:08:57.858  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:09:12.609  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:09:45.627  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:10:00.424  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:10:19.660  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:10:34.661  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:11:03.819  You gain Perceived Weakness. 
7/17 12:11:18.664  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:11:52.228  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:12:06.901  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:12:33.872  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:12:48.951  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:13:08.140  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:13:22.922  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:13:45.158  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:13:59.940  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:14:16.941  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:14:31.629  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:14:57.584  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:15:12.632  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:15:44.775  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:16:00.041  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:16:21.418  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:16:36.215  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:16:53.654  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:17:08.858  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:17:24.109  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:17:38.891  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:18:05.096  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:18:20.066  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:18:52.552  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:19:07.475  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:19:28.179  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:19:43.149  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:20:04.432  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:20:19.214  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:21:09.077  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:21:24.062  Perceived Weakness fades from you.


7/17 12:21:48.954  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:22:03.721  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:22:41.114  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:22:56.083  Perceived Weakness fades from you.


7/17 12:23:17.413  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:23:32.211  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:24:05.557  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:24:20.339  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:24:38.652  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:24:53.278  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:25:40.703  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:25:55.642  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:26:22.112  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:26:37.128  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:26:54.238  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:27:09.114  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:27:56.648  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:28:11.602  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:28:42.463  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:28:57.417  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:29:38.716  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:29:54.045  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:30:19.265  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:30:34.218  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:30:51.891  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:31:06.705  Perceived Weakness fades from you.
 
7/17 12:31:27.206  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:31:42.378  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:32:07.723  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:32:22.630  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:33:06.054  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:33:20.899  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:33:40.712  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:33:55.557  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:34:18.386  You gain Perceived Weakness.
7/17 12:34:33.324  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:34:54.904  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:35:09.748  Perceived Weakness fades from you.
 
7/17 12:35:42.672  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:35:57.610  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:35:57.610  Servant of Razelikh attacks. You parry.

7/17 12:36:35.721  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:36:50.597  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:37:06.676  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:37:21.599  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:37:43.209  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:37:58.132  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:38:19.414  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:38:34.399  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:39:15.745  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:39:30.590  Perceived Weakness fades from you.
 
7/17 12:40:26.218  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:40:41.000  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:40:59.454  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:41:14.220  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:41:38.127  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:41:52.738  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:42:47.115  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:43:01.866  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:43:35.977  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:43:50.884  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

7/17 12:44:51.105  You gain Perceived Weakness 
7/17 12:45:06.153  Perceived Weakness fades from you.

FullCombatLog

• sp00n · 08/11/07, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Lilias

Anybody tested of lately if Swordspec is indeed no longer only triggered by OH Hits but does produce an OH Extrahit also?
I know some people claimed this for quite a while and have always been proven wrong, but rumour has it it really got changed this time (not mentioned in patchnotes) and considering a fist/sword combination has been _the_ dps build for a few months which I don't think was intended due to 2 weaponspecs at once being superior to using just one I'm inclined to take this as Blizzards way of fixing it.

So if anybody got logs on this, I'd love to see them. Last post in the old Fist/Swordthread (http://elitistjerks.com/440043-post53.html) mentions the change to be active too, but without any decent testing & logs there's not much to rely on.

No, Swordspec still triggers main hand attacks.

Just tested on PTR with a 2.6 fist mainhand, which is reduced to 2.0 with SnD and a grey low level sword:

                                                                      Hand    Time
17:13:04.156  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 834.                  MH      0
17:13:05.656  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
17:13:05.671  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 180.                   OH      Proccing
17:13:05.953  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 883.                  MH      +1.8 [Proc]
17:13:06.281  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 430.                   MH      +0.3 [Regular Swing]



17:13:44.468  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 522.                   MH      0
17:13:45.687  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
17:13:45.687  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 190.                   OH      Proccing
17:13:46.000  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 503.                   MH      +1.5 [Proc]
17:13:46.593  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 508.                   MH      +0.5 [Regular Swing]



17:14:24.812  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 526.                   MH      0
17:14:25.421  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
17:14:25.421  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 380.                  OH      Proccing
17:14:26.125  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 955.                  MH      +1.3 [Proc]
17:14:26.734  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 844.                  MH      +0.6 [Regular Swing]

Lilias · 08/11/07, 11:52 AM

Thanks a lot. I tested it myself about one hour ago on life servers (vendor trash dagger in mh, s2 slicer in oh to make it appear explicit) since people kept spreading it had been changed months ago, still came to the same conclusion: oh procs still trigger mh extra hits.

8/11 16:20:37.531 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization. 
8/11 16:20:37.531 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 330. 
8/11 16:20:37.531 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 150.  .

8/11 16:25:51.937 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
8/11 16:25:51.937 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 693.
8/11 16:25:52.156 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 160.

8/11 16:25:53.953 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
8/11 16:25:53.968 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 313.
8/11 16:25:53.968 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 159.

Also I'm glad to see your log's timestamps are as inaccurate as mine - I almost never got proc message, trigger and extra hit with the very same stamp, but I guess that's just the way our laggy servers work.

uhohzombies · 08/25/07, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

15) What's the proc rate on Madness of the Betrayer?

I recently acquired the Madness of the Betrayer so I decided to do some testing and contribute to this thread.

First of all, I can verify that it has no internal cooldown.

8/25 02:22:29.093  You gain Forceful Strike.
8/25 02:22:39.265  Forceful Strike fades from you.

8/25 02:22:44.812  You gain Forceful Strike.
8/25 02:22:54.937  Forceful Strike fades from you.

As you can see, the interval between the proc fading and being reapplied is about 5 seconds. I also noticed instances where the proc would refresh before it expired.

Here are screenshots of the data I got from ProcWatch. Testing was conducted on a Servant in the Blasted Lands using two store-bought, common 1.3 speed daggers, no haste gear equipped, and simply auto-attacking:

I had to stop early to repair the daggers because they were almost broken from previous testing (lost that data when my game crashed, unfortunately):

These are the final, merged results after one hour of testing:

Finally, I decided to put on my regular PvE gear which includes a 2.7 speed main-hand, 1.5 speed off-hand, and 105 passive haste rating. Using my 1s/5r cycle, here's what I got after 10 minutes:

LiteSabre · 08/25/07, 4:38 AM

One question I don't recall seeing answered here. though I could be wrong. I did try searching for it but couldn't find any relevant posts through three pages.

Does Shiv (the skill) have any sort of damage modifier? The other day I noticed it critting for over 1000, and while I wish my OH crit for that much normally, it certainly doesn't.

• Aldriana · 08/25/07, 4:42 AM

Couple of questions:

1) is that just with autoattack, or did you use specials?
2) Did you by any chance save the combatlog? It'd be helpful to have a look at it.

It's clearly not a 1 PPM effect, but without knowing a bit more about the testing I couldn't tell you exactly what it is.

uhohzombies · 08/25/07, 4:50 AM

When I was using the dual 1.3 speed daggers I did nothing but stand there and auto-attack for the entire hour with a feral druid next to me for LotP healing.

For the 10 minute test with my regular swords and haste gear, I used sinister strike, slice and dice, and rupture (1s/5r cycle) for the entire time (aside from some eviscerates when combat potency went off like crazy and accelerated my cycle).

I don't have the combat log anymore, but I'd be more than happy to conduct the test again and PM you the log file. I wasn't quite sure whether to use two 1.3 speed daggers or the 2.3 speed vendor swords for testing, so if you'd prefer I conducted it under certain specific conditions, just let me know.

• Aldriana · 08/25/07, 5:32 AM

The most useful information comes from doing tests at 2 different speeds. So if you're going to do another test, it'd be most helpful to do it at 2.3, since you already have some data at 1.3.

Thanks for working on this.

uhohzombies · 08/25/07, 7:12 AM

Not a problem. Thank you for all the work you do for the community.

I definitely noticed the proc refresh itself once in a while during the test. Unfortunately, these are not counted by ProcWatch and not reflected in the combat log unless you look for instances of Forceful Strike which last for longer than 10 seconds.

Here are my results for testing with two 2.3 speed vendor-bought scimitars, strictly auto-attacking, no haste gear equipped, over a 60 minute period:

Full Combat log available here: Free file hosting by Savefile.com

One thing to note is that I have 5/5 Sword Specialization so there were extra swings involved as opposed to the dual 1.3 speed dagger test.

Dulak · 08/25/07, 12:49 PM

Did your procwatch only count the procs or also when the buff faded? Am I right when i assume it counts both when the Event- field is set to forceful strike? So is the proc rate in fact 1.5 ppm?

• Aldriana · 08/25/07, 3:20 PM

Yeah, I think the proc watch is counting both buff gain and buff loss, looking at the combat log.

I ran the combat log through my proc-rate-calculation script, which produced the following:

Madness Procs: 130
Uptime Periods: 97
Total Swings: 3364
Proc Rate: 0.038644470868
Proc Std. Dev: 0.00332320936645
Proc rate lies between 0.0321309805098 and 0.0451579612263

PPM Values
-----------------------------
Mean: 1.00811663134
Min: 0.838199491559
Max: 1.17803377112

So, with the 2.3 speed weapons, it's extremely close to 1 PPM. Throw in the fact that the ProcWatches at 1.3 and 2.3 put forth very similar PPM numbers, I have no problem with labeling this as a 1 PPM proc.

uhohzombies · 08/25/07, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dulak

Did your procwatch only count the procs or also when the buff faded? Am I right when i assume it counts both when the Event- field is set to forceful strike? So is the proc rate in fact 1.5 ppm?

Conducting this test at 3a.m. sent this fact sailing clear over my head. You're absolutely correct... I neglected to set the field to only the gain message. >.<

This trinket's proc rate felt just like the Dragonspine Trophy's to me, so 1ppm makes perfect sense.

dhegin · 08/28/07, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

9) What about Drakefist Hammer/Dragonmaw/Dragonstrike?

Dragonstrike sitting in my bank, I'll whack away at a servant for a half hour or so and upload my logs for you. What would be the best way to do this? Just white attack the entire duration? and search for "You gain Haste."?(for Procwatch anyway)

Thanks in advance.

• Aldriana · 08/28/07, 12:07 PM

Recommended testing methodology:

Take off your OH, and white atttack something for a while.

Ideally, make use of the buff-canceling macro that appeared earlier in this thread to cancel haste as soon as you get it. If you don't feel like messing with it, that's fine too.

In the former case (i.e., with the buff-canceling macro used) it would be sufficient to see just the total number of attacks and the number of haste procs. In the latter case I would want to see a /combatlog so I can work out the details of overlapping procs.

Faliel · 08/28/07, 12:18 PM

I am in a guild that has Gruul and Void Reaver on farm and is starting to learn SSC. (I mention this so everyone has an idea of what loot my guild has available to us.)

I am always looking for the best way for everyone to maximize their potential. I read something on this forum that makes me pose the question about sword spec for rogues... How does sword spec really work?

From my understanding, when it procs, the rogue gets one extra, instant attack that is equivalent to a white damage swing and has the same chance to crit as the rogue's normal white damage. The swing does not reset the swing timer.

Now, here is the question... Which weapon does the extra swing occur with?

Assume that the rogue has a sword in each hand. I was under the impression that if the OH weapon procced the swing then it was an extra OH attack, and if the MH weapon procced the swing then it was an extra MH attack.

Is this correct? I read something here just today that made me think that I might be wrong.

To be perfectly honest I do not know where or how to find out this information on my own. Thank you in advance for your help.

dhegin · 08/28/07, 12:25 PM

To the best of my knowledge, all extra attacks proc a Mainhand attack.