[DPS Warrior T6] Why Agility?

Hozz · 07/17/07, 8:30 AM

Looking at the item set here Onslaught Battlegear - Item Sets - World of Warcraft

I have to wonder why is Agility such a huge part of the item budget for each piece?

What is Blizzard trying to do here? Is this intentional or oversight?

For DPS purposes, AGI is a bad stat. Even assuming always on Kings.

STR, Crit, Haste, AP, Armor Pen are always better from a budget perspective and you can add Hit to that list if you are dual wielding.

Is this supposed to be an offtank set? AGI is not a tremendous offtank stat either...although I would concede that it is a better offtank set than DPS set.

Thoughts?

loky · 07/17/07, 8:35 AM

You gain armor , crit chance and dodge all from agility. As a warrior I'd take pure agility over STR.

Osse · 07/17/07, 8:37 AM

It scales with kings.

Voley · 07/17/07, 8:50 AM

They try to balance things from my point of view, thats why we dont see t6 pieces with 120str or 150 spelldamage on each piece, because that would be overpowered and putting more stats makes each stat cheaper too.

Hozz · 07/17/07, 8:52 AM

Even assuming Kings is always on...Crit rating>AGI for DPS.

The dodge boost from agility is significant, but for a DPS set, I dont see that as relevant. As a Rogue do you value dodge? Would you take it over crit, hit or AP on your T6?

The armor boost from agility is trivial, and again, its a DPS set.

Originally Posted by Voley

They try to balance things from my point of view, thats why we dont see t6 pieces with 120str or 150 spelldamage on each piece, because that would be overpowered and putting more stats makes each stat cheaper too.

But why agility? Why not crit? There is no crit on any piece. Or haste? Haste is a better DPS stat than agility.

Hozz · 07/17/07, 8:53 AM

double post. delete please!

Hoonboof · 07/17/07, 9:13 AM

Padding, they know that if they converted that into useful damage stats we would be seeing the Naxx era Fury warrior dominating the charts once again.

KYA1337 · 07/17/07, 9:27 AM

I guess they want to reduce future amount of nerfing needed by providing subpar itemisation.

Hozz · 07/17/07, 9:31 AM

I considered that possibility (and it may well be the case), that AGI was substituted for crit to avoid Warrior gear scaling issues but if you look at the Hyjal/BT loot tables there are plenty of non set items that provide loads of the typical DPS Warrior stats (along with the new, not so typical haste rating which is awesome, and a couple with armor pen).

So the set seems...meh. The two piece set bonus is very nice, beyond that I dont know why anyone would wear the pieces.

Calgar · 07/17/07, 9:33 AM

It is completely moronic IMO. I think the reason it was done, was because agility has a higher ilvl cost then straight crit, so it's a way to indirectly cap the damage added to the suit without doing something stupid like putting 15 defense on every piece (Tier 2.5 anyone?)

T6
Armor : 7415
Str : 249
Agi : 185
Sta : 246
Crit : 0
Hit : 30
Armor pen ; -518
Sockets (Bonus) : 1 meta, 3 red, 1 yellow, 4 blue (9 crit, 6 str socket bonuses total)

Assume 10 STR in all red, 12agi/3% crit in meta, yellow = 10 hit (dual wield fury here), blue is 5str/7 sta.

Total (Unenchanted);
AP: 610
Crit: 6.38% crit
Hit: 40
Stam: 274
Other: -518 Armor, 3% more damage on crits, -3 rage offa execute, 5% more damage for MS and BT

In comparison, using the following; Helm of the Illidari Shatterer, Blood-stained Pauldrons, Bulwark of ancient kings, Grips of Silent Justice and Legguards of Endless Rage;

Total (Unenchanted);
AP: 546
Crit: 7.83%
Hit: 146 (9.66%...wowza)
Stam: 234
Other: -150 armor, 3% more damage on crits, 1500hp/150str 30 minute CD use.

I again choose hit gems on the off-set pieces, but considering the insane amount of hit, you could trade 30 hit for 30 crit, or another 1.36% crit, or for 3x5 str/5crit gems for 0.67% crit and 30 AP (Which would be my choice actually). You can debate the choices i made, but i basically steered away from items with +haste for a somewhat even comparison.

The other bonus to using an off-set is that it allows your tanks/healers to take the T6 gear, or for you to tank the T6 tanking gear instead. Not to mention if you use dkp, the off-set is bound to be about a Quarter the cost (In my experience)

From T6 to Off-piece suit;

AP: -64
Crit: +1.45% crit
Hit : +7.01% hit
Sta: -40
Other: Lose 368 armor pen, T6 set bonuses.

In conclusion; T6 is an excellent 2 hander suit, as it stacks AP, a decent amount of crit, stamina and armor pen, but loses out a bit on the fury side, as it lacks significant amounts of +hit (Although this can be made up with other gear). You just have to decide if the crit/hit is more important then the -armor or AP.

Punscho · 07/17/07, 9:39 AM

As the OP said, even with constant king's agi is far worse than crit rating. And in a raid environment you don't need armor or dodge so it's a waste really. It would make sense if the PvP gear had agility instead of crit rating since dodge does matter some in PvP but heck I still prefer crit rating.

The reason for agility on the DPS set is probably due to stubborness of the developers/itemisers, "because it's always been like that". Much gear in classic wow had agility over 1-2% crit because you could make items inbetween crit steps using agility. Since 2.0 it doesn't make sense though since the ratings system covers that. So it's probably just to not make "perfect" items common. There are some "perfect" items out there but most of the time you have to take something not perfectly itemised because it's an upgrade nontheless.

Somewhere someone decided that the needed agility per crit was to increase 67% (33.33/20) from level 60 to 70 when the needed crit rating only increased about 38% (22.1/16). This decision really made agility quite useless and gets warriors a little shafted in itemisation since we usually have to share necks, backs, rings, ranged weapons with rogues and hunters that gain ap aswell.

After cloak of the inciter, what cloaks are there with ap/str, crit and hit? They all got ap, agi, hit.
How many necks with ap/str, crit and hit after traitor's noose? They all got ap, agi, hit.
And so on.

In short: stubborn developers, and not all items are to be "perfect".

dr_AllCOM3 · 07/17/07, 10:20 AM

A T6 set with Crit Rating would be overpowered. At least the Set Bonus is good.

krayons · 07/17/07, 11:00 AM

scales with kings

Darkrenown · 07/17/07, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Punscho

After cloak of the inciter, what cloaks are there with ap/str, crit and hit? They all got ap, agi, hit.
How many necks with ap/str, crit and hit after traitor's noose? They all got ap, agi, hit.
And so on.

Cloak of darkness in 2.2 looks nice:
http://www.worldofraids.com/news/new...ye-rewards.jpg