Hozz

Looking at the item set here Onslaught Battlegear - Item Sets - World of Warcraft

I have to wonder why is Agility such a huge part of the item budget for each piece?

What is Blizzard trying to do here? Is this intentional or oversight?

For DPS purposes, AGI is a bad stat. Even assuming always on Kings.

STR, Crit, Haste, AP, Armor Pen are always better from a budget perspective and you can add Hit to that list if you are dual wielding.

Is this supposed to be an offtank set? AGI is not a tremendous offtank stat either...although I would concede that it is a better offtank set than DPS set.

Thoughts?

 

loky

You gain armor , crit chance and dodge all from agility. As a warrior I'd take pure agility over STR.

 

Osse

It scales with kings.

 

Voley

They try to balance things from my point of view, thats why we dont see t6 pieces with 120str or 150 spelldamage on each piece, because that would be overpowered and putting more stats makes each stat cheaper too.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5237/sigyt7.jpg

 

Hozz

Even assuming Kings is always on...Crit rating>AGI for DPS.

The dodge boost from agility is significant, but for a DPS set, I dont see that as relevant. As a Rogue do you value dodge? Would you take it over crit, hit or AP on your T6?

The armor boost from agility is trivial, and again, its a DPS set.

But why agility? Why not crit? There is no crit on any piece. Or haste? Haste is a better DPS stat than agility.

 

Hozz

double post. delete please!

 

Hoonboof

Padding, they know that if they converted that into useful damage stats we would be seeing the Naxx era Fury warrior dominating the charts once again.

:goon2:

 

KYA1337

I guess they want to reduce future amount of nerfing needed by providing subpar itemisation.

 

Hozz

I considered that possibility (and it may well be the case), that AGI was substituted for crit to avoid Warrior gear scaling issues but if you look at the Hyjal/BT loot tables there are plenty of non set items that provide loads of the typical DPS Warrior stats (along with the new, not so typical haste rating which is awesome, and a couple with armor pen).

So the set seems...meh. The two piece set bonus is very nice, beyond that I dont know why anyone would wear the pieces.

 

Calgar

It is completely moronic IMO. I think the reason it was done, was because agility has a higher ilvl cost then straight crit, so it's a way to indirectly cap the damage added to the suit without doing something stupid like putting 15 defense on every piece (Tier 2.5 anyone?)

T6
Armor : 7415
Str : 249
Agi : 185
Sta : 246
Crit : 0
Hit : 30
Armor pen ; -518
Sockets (Bonus) : 1 meta, 3 red, 1 yellow, 4 blue (9 crit, 6 str socket bonuses total)

Assume 10 STR in all red, 12agi/3% crit in meta, yellow = 10 hit (dual wield fury here), blue is 5str/7 sta.

Total (Unenchanted);
AP: 610
Crit: 6.38% crit
Hit: 40
Stam: 274
Other: -518 Armor, 3% more damage on crits, -3 rage offa execute, 5% more damage for MS and BT

In comparison, using the following; Helm of the Illidari Shatterer, Blood-stained Pauldrons, Bulwark of ancient kings, Grips of Silent Justice and Legguards of Endless Rage;

Total (Unenchanted);
AP: 546
Crit: 7.83%
Hit: 146 (9.66%...wowza)
Stam: 234
Other: -150 armor, 3% more damage on crits, 1500hp/150str 30 minute CD use.

I again choose hit gems on the off-set pieces, but considering the insane amount of hit, you could trade 30 hit for 30 crit, or another 1.36% crit, or for 3x5 str/5crit gems for 0.67% crit and 30 AP (Which would be my choice actually). You can debate the choices i made, but i basically steered away from items with +haste for a somewhat even comparison.

The other bonus to using an off-set is that it allows your tanks/healers to take the T6 gear, or for you to tank the T6 tanking gear instead. Not to mention if you use dkp, the off-set is bound to be about a Quarter the cost (In my experience)

From T6 to Off-piece suit;

AP: -64
Crit: +1.45% crit
Hit : +7.01% hit
Sta: -40
Other: Lose 368 armor pen, T6 set bonuses.

In conclusion; T6 is an excellent 2 hander suit, as it stacks AP, a decent amount of crit, stamina and armor pen, but loses out a bit on the fury side, as it lacks significant amounts of +hit (Although this can be made up with other gear). You just have to decide if the crit/hit is more important then the -armor or AP.

 

Punscho

As the OP said, even with constant king's agi is far worse than crit rating. And in a raid environment you don't need armor or dodge so it's a waste really. It would make sense if the PvP gear had agility instead of crit rating since dodge does matter some in PvP but heck I still prefer crit rating.

The reason for agility on the DPS set is probably due to stubborness of the developers/itemisers, "because it's always been like that". Much gear in classic wow had agility over 1-2% crit because you could make items inbetween crit steps using agility. Since 2.0 it doesn't make sense though since the ratings system covers that. So it's probably just to not make "perfect" items common. There are some "perfect" items out there but most of the time you have to take something not perfectly itemised because it's an upgrade nontheless.

Somewhere someone decided that the needed agility per crit was to increase 67% (33.33/20) from level 60 to 70 when the needed crit rating only increased about 38% (22.1/16). This decision really made agility quite useless and gets warriors a little shafted in itemisation since we usually have to share necks, backs, rings, ranged weapons with rogues and hunters that gain ap aswell.

After cloak of the inciter, what cloaks are there with ap/str, crit and hit? They all got ap, agi, hit.
How many necks with ap/str, crit and hit after traitor's noose? They all got ap, agi, hit.
And so on.

In short: stubborn developers, and not all items are to be "perfect".

 

dr_AllCOM3

A T6 set with Crit Rating would be overpowered. At least the Set Bonus is good.

 

krayons

scales with kings

 

Darkrenown

Cloak of darkness in 2.2 looks nice:
http://www.worldofraids.com/news/new...ye-rewards.jpg

 

Hozz

Giving classes the stats they use is overpowered? Thats not cool.

Hey, read the thread IMO.

It is nice but the mats are crazy and we already have [Vengeance Wrap]

 

• Fogbug

My take on it is that armor penetration is really powerful, and Blizzard wanted to keep the overall dps of the pieces down in some way. I imagine they originally had no crit, but the agility was put on so t5 -> t6 wouldn't have warriors losing a ton of their crit.

Take a look at other armor penetration gear in the game; none of it has any crit, agi or pure.

270 health is a pretty big deal on the harder BT/Hyjal fights, even for a warrior

 

KYA1337

Remember how rogue-sets up to Naxx always had strength on some pieces?

Most likely the designer of those was assigned to do Warrior T6. ^^

 

Hozz

Take a look at Rogue T6 stats Slayer's Armor - Item Sets - World of Warcraft

I agree that cloak is 'better' but for DPS its no better than Vengeance which is a lot cheaper to make and many people already have.

I do remember. Which is why I am puzzled they are making the same mistake again...with a different class. Not really puzzled...I just want to know if its intentional or oversight.

Also someone mentioned earlier that AGI has a higher ilevel cost than crit, that is not the case. Primary stats like STR,AGI cost the same as combat ratings, per point.

So from an item cost perspective, 33 AGI (1% crit for a Warrior) costs the same as 33 crit rating (1.5% crit).

 

Calgar

Pardon me. I probably should have said that better. What i meant was, for a similar ilvl budget, you get more crit from crit rating then agility, or agility costs more for the same amount of actual crit. The dodge and armor bonuses are generally trivial and ignored from a DPS warrior's perspective

 

• Igniter

It happens to lots of classes. Rogues STR/dodge (seems somewhat fixed), and enh shamans mp5/spell damage (spell damage is gone for good it seems), and resto shamans spell crit. Theres 11 totally useless mp5 on enh T6 chest. At least agi does something for you, but for shamans who can keep good mana with JoW/SR, mp5 is as useful as a third <bodypart>.

Thottbot World of Warcraft: Skyshatter Tunic
Do you have any idea how expensive mp5 is? (I forget the item value cost myself, so if you know do tell) We get a nice 35 of it on T6. -ac? haste? Nope.

2.23% crit isn't horrible. Sure it sucks, but compared to the other classes, it's not too shabby.

 

Hozz

185 points of AGI across the set. Assuming always on Kings that is 6.17% crit. If that AGI were crit rating instead, it would provide 8.4% crit. That is a lot of wasted stat points IMO.

 

Thezilch

Priest (DPS) T6: Spirit, MP5, NOT shadow +dmg, +crit (5x worse than STR on rogues), and horrid socket colors.

This thread sucks, as Blizzards choice of itemization has been beaten to death.

 

Emeraude

You actually lose crit/hit going from Tier 5 to Tier 6. Maybe the -armor makes up for it, but the agility IS a waste, Warrior survival comes from HP/Plate, not dodging, while the Rogue in Plate term is cute, it doesn't apply here.

You lose 1.28% Crit, and 2.89% Hit going from Tier 5->Tier 6, you gain 1 socket, 40 AP from str, 12 stamina, and -518 armor on your targets.

We can caulk it up bad itemization as usual I suppose, though after 2 years it would be nice if we had someplace to give item feedback at. =/

As of now it's kinda silly to wear more then 2-3 piece Onslaught.

 

SentinelBorg

As an enhancement shaman I would like to trade in some of my T6 critrating for your agility. And the hunters can have my Mp5. Dont know why, but Blizzard fucked up both sets. :/ The T5s have a much better distribution of the valuepoints.

 

Nezralix

A pretty fair amount of exaggeration in this thread.

wowwiki.com lists agility at 33 agi per 1% crit. If we assume that you've got Kings in a raid, then you need 30 agility per crit. 30 crit rating is 1.36% crit. So, at most, you're looking at a fairly marginal difference in overall crit chance, given that your rings, cloak, and non-set pieces probably still have crit rating instead of agility (generic DPS items just tend to be that way). If your Onslaught Battlegear gives you 184 agility, then that's 6.1% crit, or 8.3% if it was straight crit rating. A solid 10% or so of your crit comes from base stats and talents, and then another 7-10% comes from non-set items.

At most, you're looking at a 2-3% overall difference in your crit chance, hardly some overpowering factor that separates pre-TBC warriors in blues from ones with Naxx gear.

But you've also gained another 400 armor and 7% dodge, which isn't really a bad deal, and certainly improves your durability in an off-tank role. Is it a bad trade-off? Well, if you're the kind of warrior who wears leather and swears off tanking like an infectious disease, then it probably seems like an awful trade-off. But it's really not that unreasonable.