Ilmater

I apologize for the new post, but I don't think this fits in with the other enhancement shaman posts.

Let me also say, I'm hoping to God that this place isn't like the WoW forums that just call me an idiot and ignore me. I would really like a constructive conversation about enhancement DPS.

The bottom line is, everyone out-dps's me. Sure, people that don't know how to spec or gear I can beat, but I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about everyone who really has an understanding about their character and its mechanics. Every time I've posted about this before, I am told that enhancement shaman lead dps in some raids, or are at least towards the top, but I NEVER match people with equivalent gear.

I've spent COUNTLESS HOURS on here reading, as well as trying to make NUMEROUS spreadsheets of my own (before I found this place) to calculate how to do the most damage and how to gear, and I still feel like I'm missing something that every other enhancement shaman gets.

Please tell me what I could possibly be doing wrong. Here is my armory:

Ilmaterr's Armory

My attack progression is pretty simple... best all-out dps is auto-attack, SS when it's up, and rotate FS and ES. Most mob fights I start dps right when everyone else does, and I skirt the line CONSTANTLY with regards to aggro while using just auto-attack, SS, and some ES (usually don't have a pally, so no Salv), unless there's an elemental shaman along, or a boomkin.

I just don't know what I could possibly be doing wrong, and I don't want to hear the "but you buff everyone else" argument, because I don't know what servers you people play on, but I'm about dead last on the list for any 5-man group I can find because I have no CC, and the only way I could justify myself to those that are LFG would be to simply out-dps everyone else.

So I'm begging for help here. I'm all but resigned to spec resto at this point in order to SOMEHOW get invited to some 5-man heroics, but I really don't want to go that route. I love being enhancement, but I'm just about done with it.

 

TradewindKlaatubarada

You will never top DPS charts as enhancement. But you buff others

You can get WFCD (Windfury Cooldown) to help maximize your DPS.

 

Ilmatar

Respec resto, then. Honestly, I started my shaman right after BC came out, having never played shaman before. I've been running heroics since I was 70. Coilfang is probably the best damn heroic a shaman can ask for. Chain heal and poison cleansing totem make the boss fights trivial. I honestly don't get people who "don't get" enhancement. I'm constantly asked to go on heroic runs, do arena, and if I wanted to I could raid 5 days a week, Kara -> SSC.

If you don't want to "buff everyone else" as enhancement, than respec. Your name is also annoyingly similar.

 

• Viator

I've found that when I place top 5 there's a certain element of luck involved as to which hand procs, say, a dual Windfury crit streak. Barring that your gear's not bad and you have a grasp on the slow offhand/stop trying to get +damage thing I see so many shamans doing.

You're probably not going to lead the meters but you should absolutely be right in there with the mages and a smidgeon behind the rogues, shadowpriests and affliction locks. The thing about beating the rogues is that by your very presence you're boosting them to ludicrous levels of damage.

Barring that, start guild shopping if people are giving you Hell in yours. If I could only bring one shaman on a raid (and I'm the only shaman in my guild!) it would absolutely, one hundred percent be enhancement. Anyone who tells you they suck is dumb.

Mages have a set time that they want you to ask for food, and that time is pull #4 of the night. You may notice them putting a little snack table down before the raid, that's them cooking the food for you to demand on pull 4. --Nork

 

Mearis

If you are talking about raids, enhancement shamans more than pull their weight. Don't worry about your own personal DPS.

If you are talking about a 5 man point of view, there are about 1 milion different DPS classes for every healer and tank, if you are trying to pug heroics without a guild to get them from, your best bet is specing restoration and healing a group.

Take a look at what the high end guilds on your server are looking for, there are tipically a lot more people willing to DPS than people willing to heal.

 

◊ Malan

You will experience a gigantic jump in your DPS by picking up an Arena weapon for your offhand and getting a Bloodlust Brooch over the green trinket you have.

Don't be tied to the Desolation set, there's better gear out there, take a look at some leather items for those slots.

Also - drop that +Hit gem in your bracers.

Are you getting all the buffs you need? Battleshout, food buff, elixirs?

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

◊ Rob

A few points.
You're a spec that can't max its DPS without salvation. Get used to it and run with a paladin at all times.
Enhancement's a raiding build, first and foremost. It's most powerful when you're grouped with at least 1 warrior and 2 rogues, to fully exploit your improved SoE, WF, and UR. (That warrior will also give you back BS, which is a nice ~380 AP.) I'll agree, it's not a great build for heroics: you're absolutely resigned to running with a paladin for salv, and your other two non-tanking classes must both have CC to compensate for your lack of it. But ret pallies aren't exactly great for heroics either, and they'd kill for our raid viability.

With the level of gear you have, I'm kind of surprised that you're concerned about heroic viability. At this point, aren't most of your upgrades from Karazhan and beyond? I mean, sure, you need 42 badges for the Bloodlust Brooch, but you can get those from easier, non-CC dependent heroics like SP and UB.

 

• Igniter

Enhancement shaman or some other dps class? 06/07/07 7:45 PM
[Shaman]The State of Raiding Enhancement Shaman 06/06/07 1:34 PM
[Shaman] Enhancement and MP5 05/08/07 1:56 PM
Shaman Enhancement DPS spreadsheet 04/17/07 9:34 AM
Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

To name a few.


But in adding my own two cents, you should rarely ever hit top 6 in dps, unless it's rare circumstances, such as melee getting picked on gorefiend, or if you out gear them a ton. Adding 200+ dps to combat rogues is what we do best, not topping meters (but we can try!!).

 

Ilmater

Heh... Nice name.

Coilfang is great, but the only stuff I could use from there as enhancement are the Boggspine Knucles, and I'm not really worried about them (I'm not far from getting the arena points for another MG MH). Take Heroic Durnholde, for instance. I have to get the "extra slot" outside of a rogue and hunter which are basically REQUIRED for that place, and that's where my freaking set piece's chest drops. I can get into Heroic Ramparts groups easily (grounding totem on the second boss makes him easy), but I have nothing I need from there, and the freaking place only drops two badges.

Let me put it this way: Have you ever seen a LFG asking for an enhancement shaman? I never have... not once. I've seen rogues, locks, mages, hunters... never seen someone LOOKING for an enhancement shaman. Blizzard gave us utility in theory, but didn't put it into practice (especially in the heroics where OUR gear drops) enough to out-weigh not having CC.

And I probably am going to respec resto, but I don't WANT to. That's why I ask.

 

Calgar

That's just the way enhancement is. You seem to have the rotation down, and geared decently so there's not a problem there. (Get a better off-hand...i know slow is the way to go, but you can still get slow AND high dps)

Enhancement is just one of "those" specs. You have to out-gear, work harder or just plain old be a better player then others to top DPS meters. A mage, warlock or rogue can take a suit of blues and an epic weapon, or tailoring crafted gear and tear up the DPS meter for a LONG time. Once you are swing 2x97 dps weapons, are hit capped, 25%+ crit, 1500 AP and getting Blessing of Salvation, you will see a smaller margin in the meters.

In a 25 man there are usually around 13-14 dps. The top 5 are your best players/best geared (Usually both) and/or the fight favors their damage type.

The next 5, 6-10, are your "average" players. They might not be the super DPS class, or have sub-optimal specs or gear, or the fight might not be great for them. This is where you will be usually.

The bottom 3-4 are usually the "bad" players. Usually populated by new recruits, morons, PvPers, people with early deaths or people in a fight they can't DPS to any effect at ALL. EG. Fire mage on Al'ar, elemental shaman on Hydross. I really hope you stay out of this bracket, as there is no glory here.

As for the "I can't find a group" issue. You aren't part of the holy trinity for heroics. No CC, no healing and no tanking. Same issue i suffer from as a fury warrior (Although i CAN tank), a "pure dps feral druid", a moonkin druid, shadow priest (in a non-undead instance), elemental shaman and a pre-imp sap rogue. You need a healer, tank, and usually 1+ CC if you want a smooth ride, some people prefer 2 CC, leaving 1 pity spot for the above classes.

 

Ilmater

I can keep up with non-tailoring mages, but the rogue I frequently group with always beats me, even if I put down GoA instead of WF totem, so I can buff myself instead of just him. Affliction locks... unless they are too lazy to get all the crafted items they can get, then they're going to rock any other dps class.

And nobody in my guild complains about my dps - there are people that are worse-geared than myself by far - but if I try to pug any 5-man or heroic, it's impossible. On my mage, I can get in a group in a second. Part of that is due to him having tailoring (back when I was leveling to 60, leatherworking didn't have such great mail gear, so I didn't bother with it), but a lot of that is because he has CC, so unless I'm in full epics and out-dpsing people, I can't get in a group.

 

Ilmater

That's why I've considered respecing resto, but I am extremely frustrated that I can't just play my class the way I want to play it - especially as much time as I've put into this character - and get into any groups. Plus, if I spec resto to do runs for gear for enhancement, I'm not allowed to roll on items before the dps classes that are with us, so that means at least twice the runs to get the gear I want.

 

berg

Go to the wws thread and look at boss kills posted there. I think if you pick random samples of boss kills that you will eventually see a trend of the raids with enhancement shaman consistently in the range between 6-10, significantly behind the melee in their group and any hunters (especially if they have a shadow priest.)

If an enhancement shaman leads the dps chart it is indicative of something happening behind the scenes that eliminated the people that should have beaten them.

 

Ilmater

Yeah, I got the +hit gem before I read these posts and learned that +hit wasn't as important. Plus, that's a small upgrade for sure.

And I'm definitely not stuck to the desolation set, but what other chestpieces do I get? Using AEP, the Desolation and Thick Netherscale chests are BARELY an upgrade over what I have. I found that, outside of heroic drops and leatherworking, the only upgrades to my chest I can get are Breastplate of Rapid Striking - Items - World of Warcraft which is a random world drop, and the Merciless Gladiator chest.

I'm working on the arena weapon, but it's about 2 weeks away as we are all focused on raiding, and are only decent at arenas.

And I usually use Romulo's poison over that trinket, but that trinket is better for burst dps as well as shamanistic rage.

And in 5-mans, I NEVER group with dps warriors, and our tanks use commanding shout, so I'm rarely getting battle shout. I do group with a warrior sometimes in Kara, but that's it.

 

Ilmater

So is it fair to say that the other guild that tells me that they clear Kara in 4 hours (I'm not sure that's possible unless you're running it with gear from SSC or The Eye, which they're not) are lying when they say an enhancement shaman is top of the damage meters in their raids? Or, if they're not lying, they're only right because the rest of the group isn't geared well?

 

Ilmater

Thanks, I'll take a look at all those threads.

 

◊ Malan

Ok all this 5man stuff is your problem. You are not going to shine in a 5man without all the support from the other classes you get in a raid. Just push it out of your head that you need to be the shining star of a 5man. Am I sometimes top DPS in one? Sure. But not always. The real question you should be asking is why are you having to pug heroics and not getting guild support for gear you need.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

• Igniter

For bosses, I can't think of a single one, barring a lucky string of crits on fathom, that can result in a top shaman ssc/tk. Lurker can be close, but thats about it. That guild might be adding in trash mobs as well? Or perhaps their shaman is really well geared compared to their rogues (daggers? assassination spec?)

 

Azaranth

Gah, I have Ilmater overload!

Your place on the DPS meters will vary widely from fight to fight. Last week I was #1 on Hydross (both our top rogues were awol that night, so I had a LOTP yay!), and then immediately after ended up #12 on Leotheras. You'll probably end up low on Gruul, but high on Magtheridon (since you probably won't be a cube clicker).

All I recommend is that you consider the environment. You won't always be high, but you should be competitive on a lot of fights. Enhancement shaman won't do more DPS than a well equipped, talented Rogue .. nor should they. But the dps you bring should be competitive, and the buffs that you offer your group more than justify your raid slot.

Edit @ Igniter: On morogrim, I think it's all about who gets tombed the least amount of times

 

• Igniter

It's also an aoe heavy fight. An aoe class with a shadow priest can destroy quite easily, although tombs do matter, yes.

 

Corripio

Well, getting a better OH will help considerably. Aim for the Boggspine Knuckles or save up for another gladiator's axe. Your stats are pretty good considering your gear. In 5 mans, im pretty much #1 or very close to the #1 person in dps depending on the situation. Plus, you don't really need CC. There are some heroics with casters or healers that you can burn down fast by yourself and require minimal healing. Knowing what you can 'off-tank' is something you'll have to figure out.

If you're barely pulling agro from a tank auto-attacking, wait a few seconds before you start. If that doesn't help, then your tank is considerably undergeared or doesn't know how to tank (like sunder spamming).

 

Ilmater

This is what I'm talking about. Unless I'm with a bad group, I'm never #1, and honestly, I'm not really competitive most of the time (sometimes I'm lucky at the beginning, but not for a long period of time). However, I hear other people are, and I really don't see how.

As for the kind of quasi-off-tanking, I do that from time to time, for sure, but rogues are far better at it than I am, AND they can sap.

I'm not saying I hate my class, or I don't like playing it, or that I'm completely worthless in a raid (yes, dps warriors LOVE me, and rogues like me alright)... I'm just trying to level-set my expectations around how much damage I should be dealing versus other classes, and whether or not there will be times when I'm more desirable, because it ain't in Kara... some fights, yeah, but not the really tough ones.

 

Corripio

Well, in a raid situation you are designed to do ~80% damage of rogues. Looking at the numbers during my 25 man raids, that seems about right. I'm about 15-20% behind them depending on the fight BUT the amount of dps I'm buffing them is considerable when compared to the other dps in the raid.

If you can't accept that, reroll or respec. With equally geared people, you won't be #1.

 

GamingManiac

It's kind of obvious some people don't quite grasp what the whole topic is about here. The OP is at the "5 man heroics/instancing" level of raiding, not SSC/The Eye/etc, so his posts are relevant to 5 man groups, not raiding (so enough linking of WWS parses unless they're for Coilfang).

Anyway, back on topic. Yes, enhancement shamans are fantastic in raids, but as some of the posters already said, that is their niche, not 5 man groups. Without the appropriate buffs, a tank that's getting hit in the thousands, and tons of debuffs, you simply won't do competitive DPS against an equally geared/equally skilled DPS class. Just be patient, keep getting better gear (more specifically a real offhand) and when you get into 10-25m groups, watch your value skyrocket. For now, just grin and bear it.

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