[Warrior] Impale Overrated? - Page 2

Tweeti · 08/07/07, 9:13 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

200% crits becoming 220% crits means that the effect of your crit is increased by 20% exactly. The 100% base would've been dealt regardless of crit - crit only increases the chance to get 200% instead of 100% (+100%) or with impale 220% (+120%), so impale is as effective as increasing your crit chance on yellow attacks by 20% (for example 30% crit becomes as good as 36% crit) - of course relating to yellow attack actual damage only and not flurry procs as you don't actually crit more often, but your damage is as good as if you had a 1.2 multiplier to your chance to crit.

The math disagrees with you.

A 500 hit is turned into a 1000 crit without Impale (500 * 2 = 1000)
A 500 hit is turned into a 1100 crit with 2/2 Impale (500 * 2.2 = 1100)

The increase in crit damage is 10%.

Xzard · 08/08/07, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tweeti

Imp Zerker is a fantastic talent and scales very well to be sure. However because the bonus from 1h Weapon Spec is calculated after AP, point for point it will always provide more benefit than Imp Zerker.

Calculations (correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions here).

Imp Zerker is calculated as Weapon DPS * 14 + (AP * 1.1) = Total Combined AP
1h Weapon Spec is calculated as (Weapon DPS * 14 + AP) * 1.1 = Total Combined AP

As weapons get more powerful 1h weapon spec should theoretically be catching up to Rampage on top of Imp Zerk. According to the DPS Warrior spreadsheet Rampage provides around 87 DPS so you would need to be getting 870 DPS from your white dmg + WW alone for 1hWs to outstrip both simultaneously.

However one wildcard is that AP does nothing for Execute damage but I think 1hWs might affect it. I have no proof of that though.

I haven't run any tests so this is all theory, and it also assumes that Bloodthirst recieves the +10% bonus to 1h weapon spec.

Sorry for derailing the thread a little bit

I recently modeled the Deep Fury AP buffs vs. One handed weapon spec to see where the crossover point would be. I computed based on average weapon damage. I do not have the excel sheet I used to model this, so I will briefly summarize:

The Fomula I used was different than what was expressed above, I used the following:

Average Weapon Damager: ((Max Dmg - Min Dmg)/2)+Min Dmg = DMG
Weapon Speed = WS
Attack Power = AP

For Imp Zerker I assumed Rampage would be up in a raid setting.

Deep Fury: DMG + ((((250+AP)*1.1)/14)*WS) = Average Damage Per Swing

One Handed Spec: (DMG + ((AP/14)*WS))*1.1 = Average Damage Per Swing

WW and BT were easier to calculate. WW is just weapon damage on a cooldown and BT is 45% of AP.

I ran cycles of 300 seconds of attacks assuming weapons of Malchezeen and The Decapitator.

I did not account for crits or Flurry and assumed that hit rating was equal. I just wanted to test the specs in terms of raw damage on an attack power basis.

Up to 10,000 AP Deep Fury still came out on top. However, what was interesting was that the margin of victory was always between 10k and 12k damage as the AP scaled from 1,000 to 10,000.

I am still new to theorycrafting so if I made some mistakes please tell me so I can improve. Interestingly enough, this does tie back to this thread. Based on my findings, you can conclude that the addition of a talent like Impale would widen the gap between Deep Fury and 31/30 One handed Spec.

Brissa · 08/08/07, 10:36 AM

The obvious error is scaling only AP and not inherent weapon damage.

Xzard · 08/08/07, 12:30 PM

Ahh good call, I should of caught that.

I reran my model scaling up average dmg and Deep Fury still came out ahead. I doubled the avg dmg of the Decapitator and Malchezeen (280 & 205 respectively) to 560 and 410, numbers which are far beyond anything in the game, and Deep Fury still came out ahead.. The difference maker is Blood Thirst. The extra damage for Deep Fury is coming from the increased attack power translating directly to damage via this ability.

However, the avergae white dmg hit and the average WW hit for 31/30 is actualy higher than the Deep Fury talent spec. This would equate to additional rage which should translate to more damage depending on how well the warrior dumps excess rage.

Interesting, but by no means conclusive. Many more variables need to be included. I appreciate the community's patience with me on this, but I think I am at a point where I am at the limits of my rudimentary modeling skills. I am very interested in the outcome of testing this, but I don't think I have the mathematical knowledge to model it properly.

Apate · 08/08/07, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tweeti

However one wildcard is that AP does nothing for Execute damage but I think 1hWs might affect it. I have no proof of that though.

Other than the increase in white damage which becomes rage for executes, right? Damage per swing becomes fairly important if you want to execute each GCD, and most of us are rather fond of the rage->damage from rage above the execute cost.

RPZip · 08/08/07, 8:39 PM

Imp Zerker is a fantastic talent and scales very well to be sure. However because the bonus from 1h Weapon Spec is calculated after AP, point for point it will always provide more benefit than Imp Zerker.

Yes, but what I was trying to drive at was something like this;

At level 70 in blues, Imp. Berserker might provide half the benefit as 1H Spec, as half of your weapon's damage range would come from Attack Power and half from the innate weapon damage.
At level 70 in epics, Imp. Berserker might provide 60-70% of the benefit as 1H Spec, as 60-70% of your weapon's damage range would come from Attack Power and 30-40% from innate weapon damage.

That would have been true looking at gear progression pre-TBC, from DM gear to Naxx gear you're likely gaining more and more of your weapon damage range due to Attack Power, with a smaller contribution (percentage-wise) coming from the weapons themselves. Imp. Zerker would never be _better_ than 1H Specialization, but as gear improves the gap should diminish, not become more extreme.

The difference maker is Blood Thirst. The extra damage for Deep Fury is coming from the increased attack power translating directly to damage via this ability.

Bloodthirst is 45% of AP. If you increase your AP by 10%, you will do 10% more damage with Bloodthirst. If you increase the damage done by all attacks by 10%, you will do 10% more damage with Bloodthirst. Unless you don't have 1H spec effecting Bloodthirst? It should - it modifies _all_ damage done if you have a one-hand weapon equipped, even damage unrelated to the weapon itself. You'll do more damage throwing a Grenade with 1H spec than you will without it.

NickDanger · 08/08/07, 9:59 PM

Originally Posted by Xzard

I recently modeled the Deep Fury AP buffs vs. One handed weapon spec to see where the crossover point would be. I computed based on average weapon damage. I do not have the excel sheet I used to model this, so I will briefly summarize:

The Fomula I used was different than what was expressed above, I used the following:

Average Weapon Damager: ((Max Dmg - Min Dmg)/2)+Min Dmg = DMG
Weapon Speed = WS
Attack Power = AP

For Imp Zerker I assumed Rampage would be up in a raid setting.

Deep Fury: DMG + ((((250+AP)*1.1)/14)*WS) = Average Damage Per Swing

One Handed Spec: (DMG + ((AP/14)*WS))*1.1 = Average Damage Per Swing

WW and BT were easier to calculate. WW is just weapon damage on a cooldown and BT is 45% of AP.

I ran cycles of 300 seconds of attacks assuming weapons of Malchezeen and The Decapitator.

I did not account for crits or Flurry and assumed that hit rating was equal. I just wanted to test the specs in terms of raw damage on an attack power basis.

Up to 10,000 AP Deep Fury still came out on top. However, what was interesting was that the margin of victory was always between 10k and 12k damage as the AP scaled from 1,000 to 10,000.

I am still new to theorycrafting so if I made some mistakes please tell me so I can improve. Interestingly enough, this does tie back to this thread. Based on my findings, you can conclude that the addition of a talent like Impale would widen the gap between Deep Fury and 31/30 One handed Spec.

I think you are doing a lot more work than you need to in your method to compare deep fury talents to 1h spec. Imp zerk and 1h spec, when active, provide the exact same benefits with one exception: 1h spec modifies your base weapon damage by 10%, imp zerk does not.

So all you need to do is find the point at which an increase of 10% on your base weapon damage is better than deep fury talents other than imp zerk. In your model, the only other talent you included was rampage. Rampage (with imp zerk) provides 275 AP, so 275/14 = 19.64 DPS.

A warrior using a weapon with base 196.4 DPS will get the same benefit from 1h spec as a fury warrior would get from rampage. With higher base weapon DPS than 196.4, 1h spec is superior to imp zerk + rampage. However this model completely ignores other talents in the fury build such as precision.

Tweeti · 08/08/07, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Apate

Other than the increase in white damage which becomes rage for executes, right? Damage per swing becomes fairly important if you want to execute each GCD, and most of us are rather fond of the rage->damage from rage above the execute cost.

This is true but this goes back to the question of whether 1h Spec provides more benefit than Imp Zerk and Rampage. If 1h spec is providing more benefit then in theory you'll be getting more Rage and still be able to Execute every GCD. If it doesn't then Imp Zerk/Rampage is better for getting off Executes.

Losing Precision however makes it more likely you'll get an unlucky string of misses and miss out on a GCD for Execute.

I was more referring to whether 1h Weapon spec gave you 10% more damage to Execute which I would assume it does.

Originally Posted by RPZip

Yes, but what I was trying to drive at was something like this;

At level 70 in blues, Imp. Berserker might provide half the benefit as 1H Spec, as half of your weapon's damage range would come from Attack Power and half from the innate weapon damage.
At level 70 in epics, Imp. Berserker might provide 60-70% of the benefit as 1H Spec, as 60-70% of your weapon's damage range would come from Attack Power and 30-40% from innate weapon damage.

That would have been true looking at gear progression pre-TBC, from DM gear to Naxx gear you're likely gaining more and more of your weapon damage range due to Attack Power, with a smaller contribution (percentage-wise) coming from the weapons themselves. Imp. Zerker would never be _better_ than 1H Specialization, but as gear improves the gap should diminish, not become more extreme.

Ahh I see what you were getting at. Thanks for clearing that up.

Another benefit to 0/31/30 which is much more difficult to model is the Rage and GCDs you save not having to keep Rampage up. Even if you maintain Rampage optimally you're still losing 5% of your casting time (GCD = 1.5, Rampage length = 30) and spending .66 more Rage per second (20 / 30 = .66). This assumes that you're able to cast Rampage at 30 seconds, on the second which as anyone who has used it will tell you pretty much never happens.

Xzard · 08/09/07, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by NickDanger

I think you are doing a lot more work than you need to in your method to compare deep fury talents to 1h spec. Imp zerk and 1h spec, when active, provide the exact same benefits with one exception: 1h spec modifies your base weapon damage by 10%, imp zerk does not.

So all you need to do is find the point at which an increase of 10% on your base weapon damage is better than deep fury talents other than imp zerk. In your model, the only other talent you included was rampage. Rampage (with imp zerk) provides 275 AP, so 275/14 = 19.64 DPS.

A warrior using a weapon with base 196.4 DPS will get the same benefit from 1h spec as a fury warrior would get from rampage. With higher base weapon DPS than 196.4, 1h spec is superior to imp zerk + rampage. However this model completely ignores other talents in the fury build such as precision.

You would have to include Imp Zerker on your base AP as well as Rampage since it is not possibly to have either of those talent with one handed spec.

For BT there is a big difference between the two. An example:

Asseume Unbuffed AP of 1800
One Handed spec BT = 891 Dmg
Imp Zerker + Rampage = 1014.75 or 1015dmg

The big question that I have from intial analysis (albeit incomplete) is whether the rage generation from the increased white dmg of one hand spec offsets the increased bloodthirst dmg from Imp Zerk/Rampage. Also, in comparing the two specs you would also want to account for Impale effecting overall dmg for the deep fury build which is the only relevance this comparison has to the original topic of the thread.

galzohar · 08/10/07, 6:52 AM

The math disagrees with you.

A 500 hit is turned into a 1000 crit without Impale (500 * 2 = 1000)
A 500 hit is turned into a 1100 crit with 2/2 Impale (500 * 2.2 = 1100)

The increase in crit damage is 10%.

But see how much of that damage came from actually critting: 500 would've happened anyway. Without impale critting dealt 500 damage, with impale critting dealt 600 damage. Therefore your crit becomes 20% more effective.

Another way to look at it (more of a proof than the above explanation):
1000 hit / 2000 crit with 30% crit rate: Average damage 1300 (1000*0.7+2000*0.3)
1000 hit / 2200 crit with 30% crit rate: Average damage 1360 (1000*0.7+2200*0.3)
As you can see with impale you got the same average damage as you would've gotten with 36% crit, hence the effectiveness of your crit% is increased by 20% with impale, which is by far the easiest way to look at it afaik and apply into calculators (aside from flurry calculations of course).

axhed · 08/10/07, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

But see how much of that damage came from actually critting: 500 would've happened anyway.

nope. hits and crits are entirely independent entities on the melee hit table. forgive me...

Nope. Hits and crits are entirely independent entities* on the melee hit table.

*As long as you're not at the crit cap

That is, as long as glances + misses (and dodges, parries, and blocks oh my!) do not push crits off the table.

galzohar · 08/11/07, 10:20 PM

Your comment, while correct, has nothing to do with my post. If you want to take misses into account then your miss% is chance to lose that 500 damage. It has nothing to do with the damage gained by crits or the effect impale has on them for that exact reason.

Let's show it with 30% crit and 5% miss:
No impale: 5% 0 damage, 65% 1000 damage, 30% 2000 damage, average 0.65*1000+0.3*2000=1250
With impale: 5% 0 damage, 65% 1000 damage, 30% 2200 damage, average 0.65*1000+0.3*2200=1310
With 36% crit instead of impale: 5% 0 damage, 59% 1000 damage, 36% 2000 damage, average 0.59*1000+0.36*2000=1310

So even with misses impale still is as effective in terms of average damage dealt by your specials as a 20% increase to your crit chance. Add glances or whatever and you'll still get the same results, although afaik specials don't glance.

anticide · 09/05/07, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by RPZip

No... it won't. I actually addressed this in the first few lines of the post. =p 1.1%, sure, not 1.2%, and it only effects specials. It adds to the damage modifier, not to overall damage; it's the same way in which Ruin is a 33% increase to critical strike damage, not a 100% increase (200% / 150% = 1.33).

he's actually right, 1% crit equals 1.2% more damage with impale (on specials), even though impale only increases total critical strike damage by 10%. i didn't notice this before.

it's easier to see when you look at ruin -

sure, ruin is only increasing total critical strike damage by 33% (150% to 200%), but crit becomes 100% (not 33%) more valuable.

10% crit with ruin yields 10% more dps, whereas 10% crit without ruin yields 5% more dps.

now if relentless earthstorm diamond (3% increased crit damage) is multiplicative with impale then special crits are up to 226.6% (220% * 103% = 226.6%), and 1% crit is now increasing dps by 1.266% on specials, 1.06% (200% * 103% = 206%) on white attacks.

Grymm · 09/05/07, 3:00 PM

I broke down a fight like tidewalker or gorefiend on SWS. Impale + deep wounds added 4% damage on that fight total (fairly minor). But, nothing in the lower prot tree or elsewhere in arms will net that much once you have 44 in fury.

With regard to 1 hand spec, I see it how NickDanger sees it. If you want to spec 0/31/30 instead of 17/44/0, you have to compare 5/5 one hand spec (which is 30 points in prot tree) against all the talents you lose.

0/31/30: 1 hand spec +10% damage
17/44/0: Imp HS, Anger Management, Deep wounds, Impale, 3 more points DW spec, 3% hit, 10% ap, 275 extra AP through rampage.

Straight up comparison, rampage/imp zerker to 1 hand spec, you need what NickDanger wrote: a 196 dps weapon in each hand. Counting in the other talents, you likely need a 300 dps one hander. I think it's safe to say that for pure DPS, 0/31/30 is an inferior spec.

Impale/Deep wounds might only be a 4% actual gain, but it's 4% more than any other 17 point expenditure.

Hudini · 12/07/07, 6:19 PM

-deleted-

Grymm beat me to it. Must read whole thread before posting.

Xerophyte · 12/07/07, 6:58 PM

I'm not sure how common other raid groups find this but at least we are having quite a significant issue with hitting the 40 debuff limit on fights where all the group is on the same target, i.e. most bosses. 30 DPS or so from Deep Wounds is often easily the first effect I'd like to see removed if I had the option. Currently we're instead choosing to forego the slightly stronger Immolate or, if running an uncommonly debuff-heavy setup, Immolate & Vampiric Embrace instead.

Of course, far from all groups will run with as many debuff-centric classes as we do (1x retadin, 2x spriest, 2x afflock, 2x destrolock is a typical minimum, for one) and on many fights it's still not really a concern. However there are clearly groups and scenarios where Deep Wounds provides a negative contribution to overall raid dps, which makes taking Impale a great deal less appealing. I'm not sure I'd agree it's overrated exactly, at least not in this community, but I do think that Defiance is (okay, will be) a reasonable alternative for overall contribution to the raid, even if it will cost personal dps.

Muscul · 12/08/07, 12:23 AM

if u start to talking about 1h spec for DPS there so lets begin....
1h spec gives (WDPS + ap/14))*1.1
DeepFury gives WDPS + ((250+ap)/14)*1.1

ap - constant for both bilds so different parts in both examples is
1h WDPS*1.1
Fury WDPS + (250/14)*1.1

so 1h>Fruy
WDPS*1.1>WSPD +275/14*1.1
WDPS*0.1> 21.6
so only when WSPD>216 1h Spec start to be better than fury
highest WSPD now only 103.1

ah yes DW warrior ... just multiply 216 on 1*625 = 351 .. so ur white DPS must be 351 before AP count
we use WW BT and Heroics
WW - (W average D) *1.1 it gives near +45(without crit) damage more with S3 2.6MH and Blade of Infamy(182-339)
BT if this affected like and SSlam so its doesnt matter 1.1 ap or BT*1.1 ..... but if not 1h spec s...x
Heroics 176*0.1=17.6 +18 damage per heroic

only heroic and ww receive buffs from 1h spec but still u need 216 WDPS to be equal in white hits with Fury.
And 1h loose - Imp.Heroic DeepWounds Impale (Anger management) Imp.Execut Precision/WeaponMastery (Imp WW)

i hope im right .... if not just wasting my time =(
Bad english detected

Uglesh · 12/10/07, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Xerophyte

I'm not sure how common other raid groups find this but at least we are having quite a significant issue with hitting the 40 debuff limit on fights where all the group is on the same target, i.e. most bosses. 30 DPS or so from Deep Wounds is often easily the first effect I'd like to see removed if I had the option. Currently we're instead choosing to forego the slightly stronger Immolate or, if running an uncommonly debuff-heavy setup, Immolate & Vampiric Embrace instead.

Of course, far from all groups will run with as many debuff-centric classes as we do (1x retadin, 2x spriest, 2x afflock, 2x destrolock is a typical minimum, for one) and on many fights it's still not really a concern. However there are clearly groups and scenarios where Deep Wounds provides a negative contribution to overall raid dps, which makes taking Impale a great deal less appealing. I'm not sure I'd agree it's overrated exactly, at least not in this community, but I do think that Defiance is (okay, will be) a reasonable alternative for overall contribution to the raid, even if it will cost personal dps.

Deep wounds is definately an "unwanted" debuff UNLESS its coming from an MS warrior with Blood Frenzy. Our raids have strict policies on who can apply what debuff. If I EVER see a Rend applied someone is getting smacked!

Debuff slots are definately something to keep an eye on, and its worth doing your calculations before the fight. Too many Affliction warlocks can actually hurt as they keep bumping other worthwhile debuffs off. This wastes mana and often slows DPS. Just look at your group composition prior to the raid starting and make sure EVERYONE knows what they should and shouldn't apply.

Korlong · 12/10/07, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by Uglesh

Deep wounds is definately an "unwanted" debuff UNLESS its coming from an MS warrior with Blood Frenzy. Our raids have strict policies on who can apply what debuff. If I EVER see a Rend applied someone is getting smacked!

Debuff slots are definately something to keep an eye on, and its worth doing your calculations before the fight. Too many Affliction warlocks can actually hurt as they keep bumping other worthwhile debuffs off. This wastes mana and often slows DPS. Just look at your group composition prior to the raid starting and make sure EVERYONE knows what they should and shouldn't apply.

Deep Wounds isn't really an optional talent for DPS warriors - if you are really having trouble with debuffs being knocked off the boss and it's that big of a deal, then have some of your warlocks spec destro, or have some of your rogues spec out of hemo.

rejdakon · 12/13/07, 12:44 PM

This thread seems to have split into two topics which are related to each other in some regard. However, my answer concerns only the initial topic, ie. viability of Impale (in my example for a DW Fury build) and the issue still doesn't seem to be "resolved". I have tried to figure out the effect of Impale on overall-DpS myself in some simplified examples and would like to check if they contain any substantial errors as my results are quite different from the ones achieved by the OP.

This one has already been mentioned: It seems to me that the OP assumes that Impale affects only roughly one third of your (special/yellow) attacks and that this has to mean that it also only affects one third of the damage caused by theese attacks. However, the actual share of critical strikes in the overall-damage is higher than the amount of critical strikes because critical strikes generally cause (assuming no talents and no resilience) twice the amount of damage when compared to the remaining "normal" strikes.

I have tried to figure out the effect of Impale on my overall-damage by resorting to simplified calculations. For this purpose I have assumed the following stats (Dual wielding):

at least 9% Hit
38% Crit
3 Expertise (in order to eliminate 0.6% dodge in favor of round lots)
No influence from talents

When attacking from behind against a boss-lvl mob, this would lead to the following attack table for yellow hits:

0% Miss
0% Block
0% Parry
5% Dodge
38% Crit
57% Hit

I am assuming an average hit of 1000 damage, leading to the following damage figures for 100 hits:

57.000 dmg through non-crit yellow hits
76.000 dmg through crit yellow hits

We can already see that the share of critical hits in overall-damage is substantially higher than the 38% chance to critically hit.

Factoring in Impale, this leads to crits of 2.200 damage instead of 2.000 and the following damage distribution:

57.000 dmg through non-crit yellow hits
83.600 dmg through crit yellow hits

This is a full 5.7% increase of total damage through yellow hits.

While the share may vary, yellow damage usually constitutes between 50% and slightly over 60% of overall damage. In my personal experience, 60% is very often the case.

So this leads to an overall-damage increase of around 3.4% which does not seem too shabby to me.

I know, these calculations are based on highly simplified numbers and there are a lot of smaller factors that I have not incorporated and which would, in the end, have an influence on the exact numbers. I also know that these results can vary due to different crit rates, etc. However, it seems to me from these examples that the "impale is not even 1% of your overall-damage"-assumption floating around in the forums over the last two days, should be reconsidered and have been spurred by calculation errors. However, I am not totally sure myself if I haven't made any major systematical errors, so if there's anything in my calculations that would in fact completely change the results, I would ask for the corresponding corrections.

Uglesh · 12/13/07, 2:13 PM

Just a qucik thought... you said this was based on DW fury but you have nothing built in for Offhand calculations.

Really someone just needs to go run a few logs and you would have an answer pretty fast. My guess is likely 1-2% increase just from what I've seen in rough numbers, but again this is all conjecture.

Tejs · 12/13/07, 4:03 PM

Just remember that a bunch of ancillary benefits are available to 31/30:

1) +3% Hit from Precision can potentially be matched by Defiance. 6 Expertise would be equal to -1.50% Parry / Dodge as I understand it, which is similar to +3% Hit in terms of the attack table.
2) Anger Management is 20 Rage every minute. Improved Bloodrage would give 26 Rage per minute.
3) From some earlier posts, it looks like the increase in attack power roughly equals 10% on bloodthirst, so the difference in bloodthirst damage between specs would be negligible.
4) Whirlwind Damage should also follow suit (assuming) and be negiligible in difference.

So it's really coming down to Impale + Improved berserker stance + rampage VS One handed Weapon spec.

So assume any weapon does X DPS with base modified attack power (the attack power before improved berserker stance and rampage).

If the weapon dps + new attack power bonuses > the weapon dps * 1.1, then the spec would be better.

Right?

rayijin · 12/13/07, 4:04 PM

Fact: Most warriors will generate a bare minimum of 60% of their overall dps from yellow damage.

Proof:

Teron, Juggernaut Guild, MS warrior does 65% of damage as yellow:
Modrack - WWS

Archimonde, myself, MS warrior does 62% of damage as yellow:
Rayijin - WWS

Gruul, Elitist Jerks, Fury warrior does 60% of damage as yellow:
Loderunner - WWS

Conclusion:

If you are going to model impale, assume at least 60% of warrior damage will be yellow. 50% is far too low of an estimate, based on real numbers.

Further reading:

I recall seeing some wow web stats of fury warriors with warglaives doing more like 70-75% of their damage as yellow, due to amazing offhand dps and WF proc rage gen allowing heroic strike spam. I'm sure you can find a few in the wow web stats thread or future of a dps warrior thread on these forums.

Moogul · 12/13/07, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tejs

2) Anger Management is 20 Rage every minute. Improved Bloodrage would give 26 Rage per minute.

Imp Bloodrage is nowhere near 26 rage per minute. It's 6 rage per minute, since untalented you get 20 rage anyway.

galzohar · 12/13/07, 9:05 PM

Getting your 37% crit and 65% yellow damage makes calculating the value of impale extermely easy:

It's basically equal to having .2*37=7.4% more crit on those specials. If you do the math you'll see that the DPS you would do with 7.4% more crit on the specials would be exactly the same as the DPS increase from impale (or scroll a bit back to my older posts but if you don't believe it do it yourself, compare results and see you get the same numbers, and if you don't, look for errors).

Calculating actual DPS increase depends on misses/dodges, however if we assume them to be near-zero would give a rough estimate of slight more than 0.65*(1.444/1.37-1)=3.5% DPS increase. In reality due to dodges/misses the relative DPS increase would be slightly slightly higher (as the non-relative DPS increase would be the same but the base assumed dps would be lower, so the % increase will be bigger, however by very little).