gringo

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but since Defiance increases Expertise by 6 in all stance, the validity of a 0/47/14 build instead of 17/44/0 should be re-eavluated. Defiance grants a 1.5% increase in dmg from behind and 3% from the front, right? So, Impale loses even more of its appeal, doesn't it?

Plus, Defiance, Tactical Mastery and Last Stand give some nice utility as Offtank.

 

Mode

Using the dual warglaives set, dr_AllCOM3's warrior DPS spreadsheet predicts a 35 DPS loss going from a standard 17/44 spec to a spec with Defiance. It's a relatively small difference, but it's still a DPS loss. Whether the utility of being able to tank bosses without being crushed is worth any amount of DPS loss will vary from raid to raid.

 

Drwal

It is -1.5% dodges from your attacks, but that actually gives more increase than 1.5% in overall dmg. Say, if 95% of your yellows hits the target, u get 1,5/95 increase, that's 1,58%, and for whites, assuming typical +hit would be 15%+3%talent = 18%, so 7% miss chance left from the dw penalty + ~5% dodges gives us 88% succesful whites. 1,5/88 = 1,7%. Waging that with typical ratio of 45% dps being white dmg, u get (1,58*55+1,7*45)/100 = 1,63% increase more or less

It's hard to me to think of any real benefit that Tactical Mastery would give, Last Stand is obviously nice, that's true, but remember u're loosing 5% parry, impr. HS and impr. TC.



Using the spreadsheet I came to the difference of ~20dps for my gear (1317 vs 1337), so it seems the fury/prot hybrid is still loosing ground to 17/44.

 

Drwal

Actually, we forgot about 1 more thing ;] Deep Wounds. They hold typical ratio of 1-3% of my dps, so 2% would be fair assumption, so u get 2%dps+impale loss vs 1,6*98% gain... it has to be worse.

 

Uglesh

I definately agree that from a DPS standpoint, Impale will prevail. The only argument would be whether moving to a fury/prot build would allow you to bring one less tank to an instance. Unless you heavily raid stack for bosses, with many encounters you are stuck with prot warriors trying to DPS.

This build might be the closest thing we could do to compete vs feral druids...

 

• Mjollnir

Drwal touched on the true worth of the matter. Impale accounts for less DPS than does Deep Wounds. While I've no WWS to offer, I can attest to a slight (3-4%) DPS loss when specced 47/14 compared to 17/44. I had been a long-time fan of 47/14 due to it being somewhat off the beaten trail and having resist gear for t5 encounters.
A rogue in my guild at the time would put out 1-2% less damage done during any given Gruul when I would be 17/44 and 1-2% more when specced 47/14.
It's a nice alternative, but still 17/44 remains the 'dps above all' spec for warriors.
Offtopic: Current testing is being done examining a sword-spec alternative in the Future of the DPS Warrior thread.

 

gringo

Should be even less, since deep wounds will get overwritten with every new crit. so it will hardly ever get to tick...

 

• Mjollnir

Sure, we all have crit streaks, but you're suggesting one hellova crit streak...

 

Brissa

Unfortunately as gear(crit) improves it seems deep wounds get worse.
I know a few months ago (looking at WWS logs) deep wounds consisted of about 3% of my total dps. Today it is 0-1%.

 

Shha

RED combines with impale same way caster one does.

Critical strike bonus for melee attacks = 100%
Critical Strike damage = 200% base dmg
Red applies to it making it 206% base dmg.
Modified Critical strike bonus = 106%. Impale adds 20% of this value making it 127.2%
Final crit damage with RED/Impale vs Impale = 227.2%/220% = ~3.3%

So in fact the effect of RED becomes more then 3% with impale which is a really nice boost

 

gakutomagnum

How about a fury/prot spec? Taking Defiance (for expertise)over Impale?

 

TheCutlery

Question was asked 10 posts up.

 

Gaiwer

think im wrong but still gonna write it down: impale increases the crit dmg bonus by 20%. maybe its my lack experience of english, but i think 200% * 1,2 is 240, and not 220.

so im not sure if impale is counted as +20% to 200 or +20% of 200 to 200

 

• Mjollnir

Read the very first post.

 

Drundia

Wasn't it fixed in Patch 2.2 together with Resilience?

EDIT: Mhm, apparently it wasn't, my Ruin crits are 209% with Chaotic Skyfire Diamond.