I've been tossing and turning in my sleep over what 2-hander to shoot for in terms of maximizing my raiding viability.

Blacksmithing has kept me competitive from Maulgar to Kael, but now that we are in T6 zones, I need to start thinking about my final upgrade. I have always used maces, since I have been quite involved in arenas and I see it as the biggest advantage. Moreso, I wasn't wealthy enough to respec every week for raids if I wanted to try swords/axes for more dps. Recently, due to BoE belt sales, our guild has built up enough reserves to pay for our learning repairs. This freed up enough gold for me to consider respeccing weekly. So now I have chioces:


[Cataclysm's Edge]

[Soul Cleaver]

[Torch of the Damned]

These are all upgrades from [Stormherald] but not so much that I can't wait for a particular one. And as the only raiding 2H warrior I should be able to snag whichever I choose.

Judging by iLvl and weapon spec, the sword should be the best. However, the sword is the fastest of the bunch at 3.5s. Although MS/WW are normalized, windfury procs and slams are not, so the slower axe (3.7s) and mace (3.8s) benefit from a higher attack power coefficient. The faster speed also means that the sword approaches the soft-cap on haste (2.5s due to slam rotation and reaction time) more quickly, wasting any extra haste buffs. The axe seems like the best compromise, but since I am human, I really prefer to choose mace/sword due to the racial +5skill.

I also wonder how much my mace stuns help on encounters where mobs are vulnerable to it. For example, even though it may not do as much damage as a sword proc, stunning a necromancer in Hyjal for 3 seconds can prevent a lot of damage. Is this more valuable situationally than the increased damage from sword spec?

I'd like to hear your considered opinions and discussion.

I've been doing some math on slam + passive haste. I favour Cataclysm's Edge because, with 5/5 Flurry, I calculate the following passive haste rating required to bring the weapon to 2.5 speed (with no other haste effects):

3.5: 127 haste rating
3.6: 160 haste rating
3.7: 194 haste rating
3.8: 228 haste rating (not including the 50 inherent to Torch of the Damned)

Math is as follows:

swing time = weaponspeed / ((flurry_haste / 100) + 1) * (((sum_of_haste_ratings / 10.52) / 100) + 1)

Using 3.8 w/228 haste and 5/5 flurry as an example..

swing time = 3.8 / 1.25 * 1.21
swing time = 3.8 / 1.52
swing time = 2.5

.. taken from the "working theories of.." thread stickied at the top of the forum.

I try to use a simple slam rotation, white > slam > instant > repeat. My goal is to get to the point where I don't have to watch my swing timer, but instead, my global cooldown governs the rotation without my resorting to dragonspine trophy proc/haste potions/etc. Right now dragonspine is very much a cornerstone. To that end, Cataclysm's End is the weapon i'm most interested in, as it requires the fewest haste items to get it where I want it to be.

Of course I may be completely wrong in thinking this is a good plan.

(Weapon damage) + ((AP/14) x Weapon speed)) = Unnormalized (Slam, Autoattack, WF)
(Weapon damage) + ((AP/14) x 3.3) = Normalized (MS, WW)

Why is this bad? If it is, feel free to delete. My apologies.

Just a minor point thats not OT, i see so many who links items as urls which for me and maybe others is quite annoying since you have to click it, open the tab or window to read its stats, alt tab or ctrl tab back to read what the post was about, alt tab/ctrl tab back to read the stats in question regarding the topic, then back again to continue reading etc etc and it all gets worse as you have more weapons linked in the discussion.

Whatever, what im trying to promote is the use of [ item ] tag.

[Cataclysm's Edge]

[Soul Cleaver]

[Torch of the Damned]

See? Notice how much easier it is to follow a post when all you have to do is hover with the mouse and see the stat/speed/top damage/etc in question and compare it to other weapons really fast

Reason for not sending this in a pm is to make others who do exactly the same also learn do [item] tag.

Back to topic on best hunter wea... err warrior weapons in end game raiding :P

I was under the impression that "should I use X or X" threads were too specific, however, I guess it does fall under a broader category of "best end game 2h" as well.

Carry on until someone who matters comes along and says otherwise.

Thanks for the heads up regarding tags. Also, I'm quite glad blizzard put strength on all these instead of attack power or agility!

I would abandon axe, especially that you said you are human. Now both sword and mace looks lovely. It really depends how much better (or is it?) sword spec is from mace spec for PvE. I think I would take mace for sake of PvP fun after raid.

Hmm, I'm not concerned about pve to pvp switches. I will have to respec anyway 33/28/0 (pve) to 35/23/3 (pvp). I guess what I'm trying to determine is if sword spec outweighs the damage lost due to faster weapon speed.

I think it depends on how much Crit/AP you need to sacrifice to get the slower weapons down to your favoured speed and on your stats and buffs as well. High Attack Power and a Windfury Totem benefit the slower weapons more.

Is there a link or something about this 2.5 sec soft cap on haste?
Situationally? Sure, but stunned mobs cannot dodge or parry, so mace spec would also make another nice little raid-wide dps boost.

Not sure but it's relatively easy to explain.

t=0.0 white swing lands, begin slam, begin gcd, reset swing timer
t=0.5 slam lands, reset swing timer
t=1.0
t=1.5 slam's gcd finishes, perform instant (MS/WW), begin gcd
t=2.0
t=2.5
t=3.0 instant's gcd finishes, white swing lands, begin slam, begin gcd, reset swing timer

That's basically the theory. 2.5 is the weapon speed at which the two gcd cycle of slam + instant coincides exactly with the span of one white swing (that is offset 0.5 seconds by slam). Zero latency is assumed.