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Old 09/19/07, 3:24 PM   #151
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Noxtenebrae View Post
Matter of curiosity, I had heard that the 5% damage bonus of the Improved Mortal Strike talent only is applied to the bonus damage of MS, not the entire damage of the swing. Reading the spell detail hasn't really given me much information, and I've been unable to find a topic already addressing this on these forums. Anyone have any solid info regarding this?
That's a retarded rumor that's been around since release, I don't know why in god's name people still believe it and continue to spread it around, but it increases the damage of your MS by 5%, not just the bonus part. =/ It's like having another 5% 2-hand spec on your MS basically.

The rumor is right up there with Sword Spec doesn't proc off yellow attacks. God I hate the stupidity that comes from the Warrior boards at times.

Err, not blaming you btw, just what happens when misinformation starts getting into circulation.

Last edited by Emeraude : 09/19/07 at 3:44 PM.

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Old 09/19/07, 3:30 PM   #152
Apate
POWER = MEAT + OPPORTUNITY = BATTLEWORMS
 
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ChickenArise
Night Elf Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Nen View Post
Can you provide the calculations used in determining +18dps for 75ap and +28dps for goose?
Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3 View Post
Let's talk about enchants. In my updated DPS-Sheet Mongoose is far better than Savagery, opposed to popular beliefs.
See the DPS Warrior Spreadsheet thread (last page-ish) for calculations.

See you, auntie.

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Old 09/19/07, 4:15 PM   #153
Asmodeu
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Drenden
Originally Posted by Emeraude View Post

The rumor is right up there with Sword Spec doesn't proc off yellow attacks. God I hate the stupidity that comes from the Warrior boards at times.
probably getting sword spec confused with WF :P

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Old 09/19/07, 7:20 PM   #154
Foundry
bucket of lego
 
Retired
Night Elf Warrior
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Asmodeu View Post
probably getting sword spec confused with WF :P
Blizzard changing the description on the talent probably doesn't help when it comes to clearing up the rumours and murkiness around Sword Spec and WF and anything extra attack, really.

When I was checking Sword Spec on the PTR last week, there was a wording change to the talent.

I don't have the exact wording in front of me, but on Live it roughly says chance of a another attack "when you deal damage with your sword".

On the PTR it now says chance of an extra attack "when you hit things with your sword". I thought it was an odd change to make. Apologies if this has been noted before. I'll post screenies when I get home tonight from work.

Last edited by Foundry : 09/19/07 at 7:28 PM. Reason: clarity

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Old 09/20/07, 6:15 AM   #155
Foundry
bucket of lego
 
Retired
Night Elf Warrior
 
No WoW Account
Sword Spec wording change for 2.2

Screenshots as noted for Warrior. The 2.2 notes are next to the pic.

Live 2.1.3


PTR 2.2.0

- A Warrior's Overpower will properly become available when one of his Sword Specialization procs is dodged by another player.
- Sword Specialization: This talent’s free extra attacks can no longer trigger additional extra attacks.

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Old 09/20/07, 6:52 AM   #156
Ren
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
The change makes it so you can't WW four targets and have an increased chance of proccing Sword Spec on your assist. So, yet another nef.

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Old 09/20/07, 7:09 AM   #157
Caesar
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Moonglade (EU)
you don't want a 2.5 sec hasted weapon. you have to account for the lag and reactiontime to make perfect cycles.

I did a lot of calculations on what happens if you break the cycle (ie have a 2.4 weapon speed for example) and the results where not that devastating. The dps did go down ofc, but since every 4th instant you can't do an instant it kind of self-adjusts.

I still find 2.7-2.8 the best real deal hasted speed. accounting lag and reactiontime you generally always get the cycles perfect and yields optimum dps.

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Old 09/23/07, 9:34 AM   #158
Amorpheus
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Arthas (EU)
Originally Posted by Ren View Post
The change makes it so you can't WW four targets and have an increased chance of proccing Sword Spec on your assist.
Has this been tested? The wording sounds like it might work as WF does nowadays...

"You are better than I am," Inigo admitted.
"So it seems. But if that is true, then why are you smiling?"
"Because,"
Inigo answered, "I know something you don't know."
"And what is that?" asked the man in black.
"I'm not left-handed."

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Old 09/23/07, 11:24 AM   #159
Corkscrew
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Maelstrom
I'm a recent convert to the 2h MS/Slam dps warrior crowd, having been a dedicated prot warrior for my TBC raiding career. I've managed to more or less match the guild Fury warrior in dps on static fights, occasionally pulling just ahead of him, so I'm pretty happy with my performance so far.

I've been looking at how I can get more dps, and haste potions came to mind. When I used to occasionally respec Fury for fights like Vashj (when being prot was extraneous), haste pots were obviously great. However, with 3/5 Flurry and a Haste pot up, my attack speed with Lionheart Champion (no haste gear at present) drops to 2.27. Bloodlust would drop it even lower.

Obviously, this fucks up the auto/slam/instant/repeat rotation, so what does one do instead? Just get your instants on CD, and then auto/slam? Or would Heroic potions be a better source of added dps, since they don't mess with my attack cycles?

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Old 09/23/07, 11:42 AM   #160
Kiranat
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Skullcrusher
When my swing time drops low enough that a slam rotation isn't viable I usually move over to this rotation:

Slam -> MS -> Auto -> WW -> Auto -> Slam -> MS -> Auto -> Slam -> Auto -> WW.

I'm sure there's something more efficient though. I've never been much of a fan of Hamstring spam as when I used to try it pre-WF nerf it did nothing but lower my DPS.

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Old 09/23/07, 1:46 PM   #161
Anduryondon
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warrior
 
Blackrock (EU)
Originally Posted by Corkscrew View Post
Obviously, this fucks up the auto/slam/instant/repeat rotation, so what does one do instead? Just get your instants on CD, and then auto/slam? Or would Heroic potions be a better source of added dps, since they don't mess with my attack cycles?
I would say you should take insane strength potions instead haste potions then.

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Old 09/23/07, 7:05 PM   #162
Corkscrew
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Maelstrom
Originally Posted by Anduryondon View Post
I would say you should take insane strength potions instead haste potions then.
Wow, I completely forgot about these. DUR. Thanks!

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Old 09/24/07, 12:52 PM   #163
Greysir
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Kargath
This may stray a bit off topic, but it seemed to be the most applicable thread (that has already strayed from the first post)

Long story short, what is the rough difference between a 33/28 warrior who does and does not use Slam? Assume no windfury, and the 'no slam' warrior uses hs/cleave as a rage dump when he has excess. Also no +haste gear as we aren't in BT/Hyjal.

I'm asking because I am trying to evaluate the performance of a dps warrior, and not sure where he should lie in the charts right now. I've always been prot or fury and he is our only MS warrior post-expansion, so where an arms warrior fits in our raid is a bit up in the air.

I'm trying to help someone that is not a forum junky or theorycrafter improve his performance... but I'm trying to determine how much is a lack of knowledge/trying new things, and how much is laziness.

Thanks for any input. Oh the joys of leadership

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Old 09/24/07, 1:32 PM   #164
Kiranat
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Skullcrusher
The difference between using Slam and not using Slam is pretty hard to determine.

From personal experience doing a 2h build without Slam put me about 150-200 DPS lower than WITH Imp Slam. At the same time there's Serida doing 1600+ DPS without Imp Slam.

I can't really comment on not having Windfury, but from the few times we've had our enh shaman die early on Gorefiend I've seen roughly a 200 DPS drop which is enough to negate any bonus BF would add.

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Old 09/24/07, 3:02 PM   #165
Turpin
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Kiranat View Post
The difference between using Slam and not using Slam is pretty hard to determine.

From personal experience doing a 2h build without Slam put me about 150-200 DPS lower than WITH Imp Slam. At the same time there's Serida doing 1600+ DPS without Imp Slam.

I can't really comment on not having Windfury, but from the few times we've had our enh shaman die early on Gorefiend I've seen roughly a 200 DPS drop which is enough to negate any bonus BF would add.

Not that you are, but i think that one has to be careful looking at people like Serida and concluding slam is overrated. In general, i dont think looking at the 2handed wars on the top kills in wws is a good sample size. A good number of them were pre-WF nerf and since 2handed dps has a good bit more variability than DW, it is harder to get a sense of what the average dps is at. Now if someone has a BL Guild wws link we could do a better analysis on Serida and If/How he has superior dps. It can be spec, skill, specific gear such as armor penetration/weapon etc.

As for me, i would also say proper slam usage is 150-200 dps more.

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