Colan

/bump because I'm currently facing a similar problem, albeit not so far into endgame.

I'm trying to figure out what would be a better dps weapon, [Stormherald] or [Gorehowl]

Really it just comes down to whether or not the superior damage and slower speed from Stormherald can outweigh the 5% crit of axe spec.

 

• frmorrison

The Mace spec proc (giving you 6 rage), does that work even if the target is immune? If so, Stormherald would win, 10 dps plus slower speed plus 6 rage a proc (I think it is 6 PPM, or 36 extra rage a minute) is better.

 

◊ Zoroaster

Mace spec still gives you 6 rage when it procs, the majority of trash and all bosses are immune to the stun part of the proc though. I was in a similar position, had a Gorehowl and upgraded to a Stormherald, the crit loss made flurry a bit more streaky but overall my damage most definitely went up.

 

Amorpheus

Stormherald improves base weapon damage about 10%, should see better numbers with that than with "just" 5% more crit.

"You are better than I am," Inigo admitted.
"So it seems. But if that is true, then why are you smiling?"
"Because," Inigo answered, "I know something you don't know."
"And what is that?" asked the man in black.
"I'm not left-handed."

 

Legedi

Another thing people should remember is slam is not normalized. I used a deep thunderer (just upgraded to stormhearld) for a while. With the 3.8 attack speed my slams did more damage than MS. Remember that the last ranks of MS and slam add 210 and 140 damage respectively, but my slams average about 40 damage more.

I also find the slower the weapon the easier it is to do a slam rotation with flurry and haste procs.

So if everything else is very close always go with the slowest weapon.

 

Gograh

Even with the WF fix spamstring is good?

I'm new to this PVE arms thing in TBC, Is there another thread about warrior cycles, and best way to deal damage as arms in PVE?

As far as I've read, we can:
1 - MS/WW/spam hamstring
2 - MS/WW/heroic with extra rage (if you have no aggro issues)
3 - cycle autoattack/slam/instant (soft capped on 2.5 speed (?) )
4 - MS/WW .. if you get > 50% rage, dump in chain slams

without -ac / haste , whats better? with it whats better? slower weapons are better for?
Moongose is better for the 2hander? Some of you guys chose imp intercept over imp execute... thats just not to respec pvp when you go to arenas (hehehe) ?is there a theorycraft big post about arms in pve like there is about enhancement shamans (couldnt find)?

 

RPZip

With the WF fix, Spamstring is crap. The choice seems to be between #3 and #4, but I'd bet on #3 myself as a matter of personal preference.

 

Gograh

In addition to those questions, slamming would make our windfuries proc less often ("raising" the white swing timer, our only way to WF). The same for Heroic Strikes....

going deeper, slamming (and Heroic Strinking) would cannibalize our windfury procs, thats for sure. But using these abilities will lower our DPS? (compared to not using them)

 

Apate

WF still procs from Heroic Strike.

EDIT: last I read/checked.

See you, auntie.

 

Gograh

my bad...
but slam doesn't... so... the questio is the same, ignore HS hehehe

 

KYA1337

Imho 3>4>1>2, but you have to be good at timing your slams, softcap is 2,5+latencyx2 swingtime.
Chaining slams however is horribly inefficient, and i try to never chain more that 2 slams together, and only when i get > 80 rage

 

Zurgat

If you time slam properly (and have it improved by talents or it won't work) then it shouldn't increase your white swing timer.
You can use HS instead of autoattack, since that still procs WF, but they removed the chance for WF to proc from MS, WW, Hamstring, Slam and any other instant yellow attacks.

For example, with a 3.5 speed weapon, no flurry active :
0.0 : Autoattack
0.2 : Cast slam (GCD finished)
1.7 : MS / WW (GCD finished)
3.5 : Autoattack

Note: The above example might be a bit off reality due to human response times.

Perhaps "BigTrouble" would work in showing if you're capping your autoswings? (It's a hunter mod mainly)

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

woo-haa

Slam resets your swing timer. So it would look like this:
0.0 : Autoattack
0.2 : Cast slam (GCD finished)
0.7 : (start new auto attack)
1.7 : MS / WW (GCD finished)
4.2 : Autoattack

 

world

Your post seems to be suggesting that you can weave slam between autoattacks a la hunters weaving steady shot between autoshots. This is false as slam very definately resets your swing timer. So in fact your example should look like this:

0.0 : Autoattack
0.2 : Cast slam
0.7 : Slam finishes casting
1.7 : MS / WW (GCD finished)
4.2 : Autoattack

meaning that your autoattack has been pushed back 0.7 seconds (.2 from waiting after the autoattack, 0.5 from the slam cast time)

edit: wow too slow

 

Gograh

I play with 300-400 ms even though I think slamming in rotations would be the best way to go now, HSing when you have enough rage... I have quartz to help me watch the swing timer, any other addon you'd recommend?

any of the good arms warriors out there has given any thought about this wf change?

 

Hidden

Why do you even think about "having too much rage" in a slam rotation after the windfury change? The opposite of having not enough rage to use an instant after slam should be more often after the hotfix, shouldn't it?

 

Gograh

you are right indeed.
I don't want to lose my raid slot as arms warrior =/
becoming a fury warrior isn't an option for me...

I'm looking for some WWS after the hotfix, of slam users

 

Gasmask

A slam rotation isn't really viable anymore, due to streaks and rage starvation.

I've found it helpful just to use slam situationally, usually right after a WF or Sword proc. Arms dps is now much more difficult than any other dps class I've played. Managing global cooldowns, rage, cooldowns, mob position while trying to slam, while staring at a swing timer has caused more than a couple deaths.

I honestly spend most of my time watching my rage/swing bars and nothing else.

CasualGamer

 

Charsi

Since Slam is not normalized and will deal comparable (?) damage with a slow weapon as MS/WW against a single target, isn't it wiser to slam after every white and save instants for when you have a rage glut, rather than the reverse?

To Colan who asked at the top of the page: Stormherald. I say this because i've been the guy wielding Gorehowl next to someone else's Stormherald. The topend difference is huge. The stun is nice. The 6 rage proc is sweet. Your crit rating deficit will be amended over time with gear.

 

Legedi

I've always taken the slam everytime, and MS/WW with extra rage approach. Slam has a 0.5 second cast time, which with lag increases your white swing by 0.5-1.0 seconds. But it only costs 15 rage. Even if I don't have a shaman, and never crit I'll always have enough rage for a slam every white swing.

In real raid situations I'd say I almost always have enough rage for MS every other cycle, it's usually only WW that gets missed. I guess you have to look at the different cycles and figure out what is more overall damage.

Assume: white attacks average 1200 damage, all specials averge 1500, attack speed = 3.04, slam increases white attacks by 1.0 seconds on average.

Only slam after every attack: 1200+1500/4.04=668 DPS
Only MS and WW every cooldown (ignore cooldown overlap): 1200/3.04+1500/6+1500/10=794 DPS
Slam after every attack, MS every second cycle: 1200+1500/4.04+1500/8.08=854 DPS.
Slam after every attack, MS every second cycle, WW every fourth: 1200+1500/4.04+1500/8.08+1500/16.16=946DPS.

Now that doesn't take into account of amound of flurry uptime, proc affects like DST, and the fact that you get less white WF procs using slam. But I think it shows as long as you have enough rage for MS that slam is better.

 

Gasmask

At 2.5s autoattacks, a 1.0s delay is pretty big. I'm only at 3.0s, but after some haste gear, I will be approaching the soft cap. Also, spamming ms/ww as priority gives me a few valuable seconds to check other things than the swing timer.

CasualGamer

 

Gograh

GasMask, sou you prioritize MS/WW, then if you have the extra rage you slam?

 

Gasmask

Correct. I am interested in trying the opposite, after reading some of the mathcraft, but my gut tells me I am going to screw up the rotation trying to time everything perfectly. I also concentrate on keeping TC/Demo up.

Note: I never slam on 3+ and rarely on 2 packs. I also use a 3.6 [Twinblade of the Phoenix] and hopefully a 3.5s[Cataclysm's Edge] soon, so my slams don't hit as hard as they did with [Stormherald].

CasualGamer

 

Gograh

Why wouldn't Cataclysm hit slam as hard as Stormherald since they have almost the same max damage?

 

• Ren

Slam isn't normalized.