Don't be afraid to read the whole post.

oh, sorry... I read it fast...
just cant remember the maths involving normalization and instant attacks.. it has been a looong time since I cursed the gods for my arcanite reaper not being as good as it was

I've played around with a 20/41, 33/28 and a 31/30 build over the last few days. I think the biggest change from post-windfury change is really the need for haste items. I felt very rage starved with a 33/28 build but was still able to hit a very respectable amount of damage with a 31/30. I'd really like to go back to a 33/28 build so I may invest in black smithing to pick up a few haste items.

Mace spec might also help with the rage there.
Damagewise how does 20/41 dual wielding compare to 33/28 though?
Obviously 33/28 will have a lot of hidden damage on bosses that are not bleed immune (VR and Hy), but i don't think i've seen anyone do the calculations for it yet.
The warrior spreadsheet posted elsewhere seems to be aimed at dual wielding.

Thank god you'r not a shot-juggling hunter.

Well I dont got the calculations for you but what I can tell you is that my 31/30 warriors outdpes our Fury warrior .Tried 33/28/0 too , but nothing has been as effective like 31/30 . Not only I outdps my fury friend but I am usually 1st in dmg meter .Thought I would say that If u dont have a shaman friend and pala for BOS you shouldnt even consider going with dps since you will just overagro after 2 hits .
After the Windfury "Hotfix" I saw the Hamstring spamming method to be kinda pointles so I asked my shammy to put GoA , with axe specc and with 5/5 flurry i found that I was doing the same if not more dps than before.
Edit: Mace specc does help at rage , but 5% crit is better in my eyes , so I would go with axe.

That was what I saw when I tested it after the change. Will try windfury again I guess and see if what you say is correct.
Also I am new to these forums but was told it is a Much better place than wow forums so I hope you could convince me with facts that the nerfed WF is better than GoA with 2 handed weapons dps.

I suppose someone else has the duty of having Blood Frenzy in your raid Mackerez, or you just don't use it?? As far as I've read, the great advantage to use arms over fury in raids is for BF...

I'll check your gear but I can't imagine an arms warrior outdamaging a rogue or fury warr
but, I might be wrong

After the wf-nerf outdpsing DW with 2h-specc ? Either the dw-guy totally sucked or you have simply much better gear...

Link your fury warrior's gear.

Assuming your armory link is your PvE dps gear, try and get some more hit.

Well I just started this warrior again after like 5 months of being away from WoW ( work stuff) , so I dont got god-like gear. To my suprise I kinda outgear my fury war so that might be the case indeed.But still , 2handed dps warrior's dps shouldn't be underestimated like some people tend to do . Fury isn't the only way and you can do quality dps with 31/30 too.And yes ,after I get the amount of crit and ap I want I will try and focus on a 100+ hit , that should be enought for a arms/fury war.

Thank god I'm not a hunter--I agree. In all seriousness, you're right, shot rotations are the closest thing to a slam rotation. I'd prefer weaving to autoattack resets though and the consistency of mana over rage with setting up a rotation. There are tradeoffs between both classes, though.

I am currently a 17/44/0 Fury spec Warrior.. Using a 2hd weapon. It works really well for me, consistantly holding 1-3rd place on WWS damage. BT>WW>HS>HS repeat.

Wow...his gear is aweful. 66 hit rating? The Moroes tank belt with + ap gems, it's bad enough using a tank belt, but he caps it all by using AP over Str. Dodge rings? Surely he doesn't raid like that?

I think his point was that using Slam after a sword spec isn't very efficient. Sword Spec doesn't reset your swing timer so all you're doing is wasting away damage/rage.

And Mackerez, you're beating him because his gear and spec are terrible. Could use some work on yours as well...Drop Imp Intercept/Piercing Howl and get 2/2 Imp Slam, drop Imp Charge and a point in Iron Will and get Imp TC. If you're changing stances to overpower you might as well remove Anger Management and put 2/2 Imp Overpower so you're not just wasting rage, and if you're not stance dancing for it just remove points from it entirely.

This is, of course, from a PVE perspective. There's alot to change for PVP as well.

Since this thread has become most likely place to ask questions about 2hand arms pve, I would like to know if any of you guys use overpower with slam rotations. (might be a hard job doing it right since the build won't allow tactical mastery)

Another question, now about hit rating, how much do you guys aim for? I have 114 and the WWS parses show 11-15% miss on some fights which I think is too high. Tootip says I have 7.something% chance to hit against a level 70 target (but the bosses are considered 73, right?)

Gograh 9% is all you need with a 2 hander. Also the 11% miss rate you're seeing in WWS at first glance includes attacks that were dodged, parried, or missed. Click the percentage in the miss column for a breakdown of what actually happened.

As human using a mace (+5 racial weapon skill) and with Weapon mastery (+4 ws) I only need 89 hit rating to never miss a boss.

Right!
But why are you still sitting and 126 Hit Rating?
You could change your DFT and the 8 Hit Gem in your legs and you would still be at 98 Hit Rating!

Yesterday I played with my gear to find a way to get 126 hit rating for further tests then I logged out.
I'm raiding with 89 hit rating : destroyer helm + krakken chestplate + red belt + 8 hit gem = no hit rating point wasted.

At this time I only have those 3 trinkets [Hourglass of the Unraveller], [Bladefist's Breadth] and [Hand of Justice].

With a 33/28 MS/Slam build and Sword spec, is the HoJ an interesting trinket? Which trinkets of those should I keep?

i have been a fury warrior for quiet some time. Ive always been top3 dmg throughout bt / hyjal. However we usually ran with 2 fury warriors, and now im switching to ms for bloodfrenzy. For fights like shahraz and illidan. I just picked up cataclym's edge just a while back and respeced 33/28. My spec was kinda a late night thing, il proly end up droping 2 points in imp intercept, and a small possibility that il drop piercing howl. 1 point in piercing howl is way worth the 1 less point in comanding presence for me at least.

Now with the wf nerf as of a few weeks ago, that completely removes the option to hamstring spam. So for my first night i basically did, auto attack > ms > auto attack> slam / ww. this was all based on rage. if rage = above 50 , usually meant i was slaming right after a white attack. I had t2 axe till late tonight till i picked up cataclyms edge, and managed to do slightly above 1100-1200 dps on anatheron, and slightly over 1100 on archimonde. i havn't tested out my new weapon yet.

Now one big thing i need to know is how much to value - ignore armor. is a mob with 0 armor after sunder / faerie fire affected by the extra ignore armor on ur gear, there wasn't really a confirmed / researched post in this thread. Also now that melee haste is gettin nerfed, and most haste gear being gimp on crit and other stats. I read about the 2.5 swing after haste gear, but is it really worth gettin it that low while gimping lots of ur stats just to stack haste. going 5 pts in flury isn't an option, no way i could get myself to spec out of blood frenzy as an ms warrior.


I also dont have an exact number as to how hard my ms hits through a fully sundered mob, and me being fully buffed and flasked yet, im guessing ms hits around 2k . so is 4 pc t6 worth it. thats about 100 dmg per ms hit , and about 200 per ms crit. Or should i try and go for other pieces of gear . A mix of haste and ignore armor .
Assuming i get in 10 ms's in a minute, and an average fight lasts around 8 minutes, im gettin in about 80 mortal strikes, assuming no lag and always having rage. With about 30% crit with sword spec.

Thats something around: 26 crits x200= 5200
and 54 hits x 100 = 5400 dmg . So on a random rough estimate 4 pc t6 would add around 10k dmg based on fight length.

Also is there any updated warrior spread sheats around, ive only seen non updated spread sheets