Ive said multiple times, the only problem is we dont get anything "extra" compared to rogues. As much as it would make little sense i guess becuase it seems redundant, the best course of action would be to make plate armor have BOTH str and attack power - just as rogue gear has both agility and and AP. The general idea that str= ap basically, might make it sound redundant, but sucvh change would fix all and any general warrior problems. Every warrior gear is fine really, I dont expect everyone to get everything on their gear. Our ArP is fine (870 is the soft cap anyway with imp expose use, we get most of the time), haste is fine, str is fine etc... Itemization is fine (in the general - not talking about specific items - they were always better or worse), beside the one obvious flaw - whereever rogues get TWO stats - ap and agility, we get one - str.
You can say hit and haste are bad stats - i sort of agree. But still if you compare the items.
I've seen it kicked around in this thread before, but can you get better results with switching to two 1.4 or 1.5 speed one-handers for the execute phase, and if so, should you enchant them as if you were going to use them for Dual Wield Fury?
I've just been using my 2h for execute phase, but I'm wondering if I could get good returns dual-wielding a set of Swiftsteel Bludgeons. I haven't enchanted them yet, so I was looking for some feedback from other warriors on whether or not this is effective.
I've seen it kicked around in this thread before, but can you get better results with switching to two 1.4 or 1.5 speed one-handers for the execute phase, and if so, should you enchant them as if you were going to use them for Dual Wield Fury?
I've just been using my 2h for execute phase, but I'm wondering if I could get good returns dual-wielding a set of Swiftsteel Bludgeons. I haven't enchanted them yet, so I was looking for some feedback from other warriors on whether or not this is effective.
I'm quite convinced that double-Swiftsteel won't be better than 2h-execute during pot+bloodlust. If ever double-sword (mother e.g.).
Looking at WWS reports somewhat at random, it looks like my DPS with an execute swap (Twinblade(Exec) -> Blade of Savagery/Talon of Azshara (Exec) - maybe the other way around, I forget) is higher than people in similar gear who do not appear to swap. It's anecdotal, but the spreadsheet only goes so far when you're comparing a button mashing cycle (Execute/MS if the boss might heal/Demo if that's your job) to something like a Slam cycle where latency and reaction time make a huge difference or to a 2h execute phase (which I wouldn't really go for with the gear I have and the buffs I get <20%)
Nothing can beat 2h execute if you can down your swing time near to 1.5 speed. But most of the time I end with 1.8, 2.0 or 2.2 depending on the buffs actives at any moment. If this occurs I found better switch to DW for Execute because I can Execute on every GCD.
If you change to dualwield you have 19% miss, if you dont you have 0% miss.
Your chance that you miss 2Times is about 4% what is quite alot (miss with sword cant proc swordspecc). Even with 2x 1.4(Haste) Weapons after dual miss you dont get the rage befor GCD is ready because of Latency Rage generation, and even as Furry with 2x 1.4 Speed Weapons and 180 Hit +3% Hit Skilled it Happens to get Rage starved in Execute Phase because of several Misses in a row.
With sword spec 2h with 1.8/2.0 Speed during buffs, you have a Chance to have Enough rage for a huge MS(More Dmg/Rage, huge compared to a Onehander MS) + Execute or 5% proc chance on Execute for another Execute and If your over 2.5 Speed again you can Slam on, without loosing a swing because of weaponchange.
TBH and after several tries I can confirm that for myself works fine. I have 141 hit rating in 2h gear, when I switch to DW I gain +19 hit rating more. I've been Executing almost on every single Global Cooldown. But is true too that when 2h executing every 2 seconds, you could end executing for more damage than DW executing every 1.5 seconds just because the rage generation. Anyways I've the feeling of a "more reliable" executing time when I DW.
TBH and after several tries I can confirm that for myself works fine. I have 141 hit rating in 2h gear, when I switch to DW I gain +19 hit rating more. I've been Executing almost on every single Global Cooldown. But is true too that when 2h executing every 2 seconds, you could end executing for more damage than DW executing every 1.5 seconds just because the rage generation. Anyways I've the feeling of a "more reliable" executing time when I DW.
With recklessness you end up at like 80 rage executes. Nothing is better than that.
Well I think the plate gloves are only good for encounters where I receive heavy damage. I think the Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets could provide me a little more dps as I already have a lot of armor penetration. What do you think?
I am not a DPS warrior not very expert on DPS warrior mechanics, but I had a few specific questions about 2h warrior DPS that I could not find a simple answer too:
- How much damage does unbridled wrath add to a 2h warrior with very good Sunwell gear? Does going from 5/5 UW to 0/5 UW cause a big loss in damage? This is mostly to pick up talented demo shout. I was also under the impression that if you are using CoR, to fully mitigate the extra AP 5/5 demoshout is required, is this incorrect?
- Given that you have talented demo shout, how much damage do you lose keeping demo shout up as a DPS warrior?
As far as I know UW got changed in a patch some time ago making it a "PPM-mechani"c with about 8.6 proccs per minute. Given that you are constantly attacking a target there should be no difference between a 2h or dual-wield warrior if I am right.
The dps-loss depends in my opinion very much on the spec of the warrior.
Keeping demo shout up as a ms warrior could easily result in a big impact on the dps-rotation through resists and rage starvation.
But a fury warrior can do this with little impact on his dps in my opinion, he has much more "free gcds" as a ms warrior and just needs to stop hs/cleave when he got rage problems. Assumed that aggro is a problem in your raid this should actually boost the raid dps as the tanks can produce more aggro with the saved gcds and the damage dealers (in the best case even the fury warrior (which would result in a bigger understanding on his side)) can do more dps.
PS: I think you are right with curse of recklessness you need 5/5 imp. demo shout without it only 2/5 imp. demo shout to maximize "boss-ap" reduction as far as I know.
As for all of my posts please correct me if I am wrong.
UW vs imp demo....imp demo for raiding for at least 1 warrior, period. The 8.66/minute rage figure, if accurate, is NOTHING when you are going through hundreds upon hundreds of rage per minute. At most, it's a token dps loss. Might help in rage starvation areas, but with proper gear and hit cap that shouldn't really be an issue. Just in comparison, Anger management is 2.5 times as much rage for one fifth the talent investment...making it something like 12.5 times better rage generation per talent point. I can maintain my normal rotation with almost zero interrupts, and if i had MORE rage, it would be dumped into heroic strike at this point which is super rage and threat inefficient.
How much damage do you lose keep demo up? Again, almost nothing if you are on the ball. The standard MS cycle of MS-->Slam-->Whirl-->Slam....repeat occasionally has whirlwind and MS on cool-down at the same time, so you can squek in a demo shout then for no dps loss. You only lose dps if you get a resist and have to try again, pushing the MS/Whirl back a slam cycle, and even that isn't more then a small dps loss (half of 1 instant attack lost over the course of the fight for every resisted demo shout).
MS isn't about damage, it's about raid support. He's not there to challenge the rogues, hunters and locks on dps, he's there to make the rogues, hunters and tanks BETTER. Make sure he realizes that.
Well I think the plate gloves are only good for encounters where I receive heavy damage. I think the Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets could provide me a little more dps as I already have a lot of armor penetration. What do you think?
You exceeded the soft-cap for more than 200 arp. What about equipping an T6,5-item (e.g. shoulders, if you don't lose the 4-bonus) and taking [Gloves of Immortal Dusk]. They are definitely the best gloves.
And 2H-execute is just amazing during recklesness, death wish and bloodlust+pot.
Last edited by np|Georgious : 07/04/08 at 1:09 PM.
Um , only reason to NOT use EA is a warrior tank having to generate threat. A rogue GAINS dps by putting expose armor - 475 ArP, is worth more then even 100% rupture uptime loss (and its not as bad). So they gain PERSONAL dps, and they buff raid...
I will try to persuade them again..Thanks for inspiration.
*edit*
Reviewing it I am not sure because it overwrites the "Sunder Armor" debuff and I don't know if 475 arp make up for the damage lose of "Devastate" concerning TPS.
Um , only reason to NOT use EA is a warrior tank having to generate threat. A rogue GAINS dps by putting expose armor - 475 ArP, is worth more then even 100% rupture uptime loss (and its not as bad). So they gain PERSONAL dps, and they buff raid...
When EA is on the boss, a warrior can't use devastate or it does less aggro, right?
It is wrong, and EA doesnt really change the threat so much. Its possible to use it on Brutallus for about same effect with warrior/druid as warriorx2 combo. In case you wanna try it, warrior goes 1st and sunders up for threat, you put expose as soon as druid takes over, and keep it up from there. If you are using revenge and shield slam (you should in general on brutallus - although im not a fan of those on some other bosses) then at most you are looking at having 2 devastates in around 6.5 second span. In fact less because they do get parried/missed etc. With 12% "misses" (3% hit with new no-hit tanking gear + some expertise) and a tclap every 15 seconds taking place of devastate (resist much ) it comes to around 5 devastates every 22 seconds.
Damage difference - 175 before armor, but also before crits. Overall seems like it evens out (close to 20% damage reduction vs close to 20% crits in dps group). Lets say 175.
Aggro difference - 70 from bonus from sunders.
245threat x 5/22 = 62.5 threat/sec. Multiplied by defensive stance/defiance its ~93 threat per second.
However a warrior tank DURING his tanking phases (dont look for the wws parses - they show the "downtime" of offtanking where you basically autoattack), gets close to 500 dps on brutallus. Expose adds around 3.5% more damage to that, so 17.5dps or ~25 tps after multipliers.
Overall you lose 65-70 tps by having expose. Given how warrior with this setup tanks usually around 5 of 11 "phases" or something similiar, overall raid tps loss is around 35.
But wait! The DRUID aggro (around 550 dps during tanking), is also multiplied because of expose, reducing the whole tps issue to around 20tps.
Pretty sure this is wrong. Devastate still does damage on a mob with EA, it just doesn't apply the Sunder Armor effect. Related link here.
Did that get changed at some point then? 99% sure I was unable to devastate at some point when a rogue hit the wrong button.
E: Thinking back, I'm probably remembering a 5-man I was in pre-Imp SA change when I was actually using Sunder Armor at the beginning of the pull. By all means, if you've got room in your threat ceiling, or if you're doing Brut with war/druid, then IEA seems the way to go.
06/26/08, 2:19 PM
+ some expertise) and a tclap every 15 seconds taking place of devastate (resist much 
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