If anyone wants a framework to build a simulator on top of, I built most of one in Python about a year ago. It's intended for a pre-BC dual wielding Warrior, but it wouldn't be too hard to adapt. Things like Flurry and Windfury are already built in, though not the WF cooldown - that would be very simple to add however.

linky

It's not well documented and for that I apologize, I got distracted by the last fall semester and never finished/polished it, but I'm fairly sure the main combat engine works. If it would be helpful for anyone else's sim projects, feel free to PM asking me how to tinker with it. The executable is fight.py, there aren't (I don't think) any command line params; most of the specifiable inputs are either in a text file or constants in fight.py.

So...basically...a setup of crit and weapon that no one, EVER, are going to use to dps?

I'm not searching for the best combo of weapon speed, or %crit, I just doing some setups and see if the simulation confirms the reality (call WOW reality is an oxymoron )

First off, apologies for going over the top. There *was* some elementary misunderstanding of probability going on here, but not by you.

Now to turn to this result - well you don't need to go to that lengths to prove it. Part of the problem was I didn't realise how many words were being used on something (a) so simple and (b) already known.

Considering a case where you're autoattacking, no flurry, no specials, no parries.

WF is linear with weapon speeds above 3.0 , with a p[roc chance per hit of 1/5

WF is linear with weapon speeds between 1.5 and 3.0, with a proc chance per hit of 1/6. This is because there is exactly one ineligible swing after each WF proc

WF is linear with weapon speed between 1.0 and 1.5, with a proc chance per hit of 1/7. This is because there are exactly two ineligible swings after each WF proc.


So much is trivial - but it doesn't get us very far except as part of a more advanced simulation, and is already built into the existing sims. So I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this thread is.


I do however have a question about WF and cooldowns. I know that the cooldown only applies to the self-buff version of WF, and not to the totem. However, does the self-buff cooldown affect the totem proc chance?

That is, if a shaman casts the self-buff version on their offhand while using WF totem on the main hand - will WF procs from the (self-buffed) offhand trigger a cooldown and prevent the (totem-buffed) main hand from proccing?

If not, it seems to me that in raids, where the shaman will be dropping WF totem, a faster offhand might be workable, since you'd only have to worry about off-hand procs eating other off-hand procs. With DW miss rates, this wouldn't be a huge issue.

A crocodile is green on top and pale on the bottom.

It's long on the top, and the bottom.

Therefore a crocodile is longer than it is green.

Proven by logic or math does not mean correct, especially if you're working from false assumptions or imperfect information.

WF Totem doesn't have a cooldown at all, so it does not interact with WF Weapon in any way. However what you are proposing would result in a net loss of DPS for the shaman. Winfury Totem is strictly inferior to Windfury Weapon, even with the cooldown on the weapon enchant. We get 2 attacks instead of 1 with a much larger attack power bonus.


@dragkhar: Look, here's the issue. Regardless of whether your logic is correct, the argument you are making at this point in time is completely moot. To say that you are not considering crit (all your examples were for cases with 0% crit, and therefore no flurry either), and only considering a single-wield scenario (at weapon speeds that itemization does not exist for) makes this argument worthless to the public.

Worse though is that your posts now serve to confuse the windfury mechanic and present misinformation to shaman who come here seeking info on how to itemize and play their character At first glance through this thread a new shaman (and we're getting plenty of them visiting this particular forum lately) will come to the conclusion that he should just Dual Wield two daggers with windfury - which is a bad decision.

I spoke with Yes last night and he said that your source code is written extremely well. You might have a great model and sim there, but not right now. Right now it seems that you are struggling with some underlying assumptions of how to model things. You apparently came to some conclusions based on these flawed assumptions and you spent your time in this thread defending your conclusions soley based on your simulation. I would strongly encourage you to go pick apart Disquette, Pater or Tornhoof's simulators and examine their approach.

To be fair, this joke argument isn't math. It's argument by violation of lexical scope. It's the same kind of argument as:

God is love
Love is blind
Ray Charles is blind
Therefore Ray Charles is God

And the source of confusion comes from "is" meaning "equals" in some statements and "has the property of" in others. (In your example, the overloaded word is "longer".)

I was talking about average, but never mind.

Ah right, so when they're dropping WF totem for the melee group, they're still putting the self-buff WF on their main hand? Good to know.

The thing about averages is that when you define an average, you have to define a range because averages are defined as occurances/range.

ex: "Average number of procs in 6 swings" or "Average number of procs in 20 minutes"

The problem with doing such when modelling Windfury is that the game doesnt use averages. It, in no way, defines a range and as such, an average can not be defined for modelling purposes.

If your end-state goal is the modeling of DW weapons, you should probably consider making your output graph more useful by limiting the x-axis to relevant weapon speeds. Showing what the damage is at speed 8.0 isn't useful to anyone.