To be honest I really don't see this as a bad thing.
From one perspective, it sounds like a completely sane change. WF proccing off specials causes issues with burst damage, and it causes scenarios like spamming hamstring. But it's been in the game so long that they've at least somewhat balanced around it. Removing it by itself, thus, is a bad maneuver, and it can't just come alone.
Before you start to drift, and your soul begins to scream.
I just wanted to tell you, that you're listening to a dream.
Erm - apart from the big C'thun hotfix, hotifxes have *always* been applied later to the Euro realms.
Actually C'thun hotfix was applied at the same time in both regions, but once the news was out, US instances was already reseted, and EU still had almost entire day left.
Originally Posted by zeidrich
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
I dont think anyone can honestly claim that rogues didnt need to be reigned in a little bit.
Rogues should be top and by significant amount because they don't give any buffs. They can stun or kick something once for a while but thats it. On top of that they are melee so require much more healing in most fights (than ranged dps). Not every rogue have Illidan swords...
Honestly what is the most pure DPS class in WoW? Rogue.
Anyhow I feel bad for warriors too, but they are really threat capped. If you would only give warriors somekind of aggro reset like vanish or at least aggro dump you could as well delete rogues from game right away.
Anyway this "hotfix" is probably just because of warriors and arena. Point is it affect PvE a lot but hell they going for PvP now! PvP in World of Peacecraft! Well they learn someday that PvE and PvP need to be balanced separately, I hope at least.
BTW: Don't you love that they put major nerfs as hidden hotfix? Same was with hunter windserpents.
It is also possible that Blizzard is doing this, in part, for Rogues to bring the balance of Combat Swords down a bit relative to Combat Daggers. Since Combat Swords benefits more from extra attacks from specials (the extra attacks do more damage) than a Combat Dagger rogue. It nerfs Combat Daggers too, but not as much as Combat swords.
As to why a hot fix, beats me. It would seem that it would be better to include it in the PTR Windfury nerf package where one could see what effect it has in conjunction with the rest of the nerf and adjust accordingly.
I find this to be somewhat unlikely. The back and forth between daggers and swords has gone on for a long time. And swords have always gotten more out of a WF totem than daggers. I would think they would look to a different mechanic if that was their issue.
Slam isn't an instant special, even when specced into Imp Slam (.5 sec cast with talents).
Right, but I'm pretty sure people are saying slam is not triggering WF (I haven't tested it my self). Logically if they don't want WF proccing off of instant attacks slam should not be affected by this change. Also logically if this change was to prevent burst damage in PvP it really shouldn't affect slam as it is not used very often in PvP.
But as we all know, nerfs are not always logical. As people have reported from testing, slam does not trigger WF right now. We'll need more time and data to see if that is true.
Yeah, I don't think this has anything to do with combat daggers/swords
Sure this hurts swords more then daggers but it still doesn't make up for the 1-2 hundred DPS difference between the two.
Blizz really sh*t the bed on this one. It has to be a knee jerk reaction to spam-string and warriors in arena. The implications to PvE are so wide-ranging and if they were going to do something like this it really needs to be on the PTR. There is no way this should be a hotfix.
They can't even hotfix rep in hyjal without 6 weeks of testing for christ's sake.
The Slam inclusion was an error. I don't believe there should be any affect to it since it's not instant.
I'll keep tabs on this thread and note questions that people have and forward them on. I can't guarantee quick answers or answers that people will agree with should we get more for you and we're able to post , but we'll be keeping an eye on feedback.
The post is still there though for some reason it's not showing up properly on the forums. In IE, I see it listed fine. In Firefox, I can't see it unless I go directly to the link or do a search under my own posts. The text was simply edited for clarification since some were confused as to whether it affected "white" or "yellow" damage with the change.
This change was something that was intended to have been implemented when the Burning Crusade was put in along with all the other changes that came with BC. We had thought we had 'fixed' this before, but kept having an issue getting it to work as it was intended. It is now corrected so that it is working as we intended it to at the release of the Burning Crusade.
That said, this was done simply to modify the amount of dps that melee classes were able to do with it. This wasn't a spur of the moment change, but something that had been planned for awhile. This does not negate any plans or discussion that was held during BlizzCon like some seem to feel. There are positive changes for Shaman coming as we said.
To those still wondering, this is a *long* waited change to 5v5 Arena.
Warriors are massively overpowered in 5v5, and setups generally rotate solely around them and their abilities (teams either have a warrior, or try to kill opposing one Ã* la 4dps).
Usually when building a successful 5v5 team, you start by taking the warrior (insane+endless dps/debuff), then you take a paladin to try to counter opposing warrior (bof/bop/mana-efficiency), then you take a mage to try to counter opposing warrior&paladin (sheep/counterspell), then you need a priest to counter opposing mage/paladin (second dispel, second healer, manaburn) and finally you take up a shaman to make your whole team better (lust+support totems+2nd purge+3rd healer) and your warrior completely overpowered (windfury).
The whole metagame is built around abusing your overpowered class and trying to keep the opposing one in check. This nerf is a small step away from this kind of trend.
Ton more of these changes like these and you might be able to start building teams around other classes too and not instantly failing (think teams built around enhancement shaman/feral druid, the horror, I know).
To those still wondering, this is a *long* waited change to 5v5 Arena.
Warriors are massively overpowered in 5v5, and setups generally rotate solely around them and their abilities (teams either have a warrior, or try to kill opposing one Ã* la 4dps).
Usually when building a successful 5v5 team, you start by taking the warrior (insane+endless dps/debuff), then you take a paladin to try to counter opposing warrior (bof/bop/mana-efficiency), then you take a mage to try to counter opposing warrior&paladin (sheep/counterspell), then you need a priest to counter opposing mage/paladin (second dispel, second healer, manaburn) and finally you take up a shaman to make your whole team better (lust+support totems+2nd purge+3rd healer) and your warrior completely overpowered (windfury).
The whole metagame is built around abusing your overpowered class and trying to keep the opposing one in check. This nerf is a small step away from this kind of trend.
Ton more of these changes like these and you might be able to start building teams around other classes too and not instantly failing (think teams built around enhancement shaman/feral druid, the horror, I know).
Nobody really cares about the PvP nerfs, the big problem is PvE DPS to most people.
The post is still there though for some reason it's not showing up properly on the forums. In IE, I see it listed fine. In Firefox, I can't see it unless I go directly to the link or do a search under my own posts. The text was simply edited for clarification since some were confused as to whether it affected "white" or "yellow" damage with the change.
This change was something that was intended to have been implemented when the Burning Crusade was put in along with all the other changes that came with BC. We had thought we had 'fixed' this before, but kept having an issue getting it to work as it was intended. It is now corrected so that it is working as we intended it to at the release of the Burning Crusade.
That said, this was done simply to modify the amount of dps that melee classes were able to do with it. This wasn't a spur of the moment change, but something that had been planned for awhile. This does not negate any plans or discussion that was held during BlizzCon like some seem to feel. There are positive changes for Shaman coming as we said.
[ Post edited by Nethaera ]
Nobody really cares about the PvP nerfs, the big problem is PvE DPS to most people.
Maybe just a few people on this board care about PvP, but Warrior/Shaman combos have done very well for quite a while, so it is good that synergy is weakened (but still there).
Arenas are very popular among the causal WoW population, moreso than raiding at least.
It is unforunate that the change happened so late after TBC was released, but it is still better than Grace of Air.
I'd really hate to see what melee DPS would have looked like at TBC launch if this had gone in as they had planned. Without the glancing blow changes it would have been an even bigger disaster than it already was.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
Neth posted again. Slam is not intended to proc Windfury. 2h no longer viable for warriors?
2H is still viable because of blood frenzy. However, blood frenzy will probably now only bridge the raid contribution gap between DW fury and 33/28, instead of making 33/28 the clearly superior spec.
08/10/07, 12:01 PM
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