I think it's totally situational. If you always have a shadowpriest and rely mainly on Greater Heal, you probably won't have any manaproblems on most encounters and will prefer 4x T6 + Leggings of Eternity. When manaproblems limit my healing output (for whatever reason) I would also choose to wear the setup you recommended.
I recently compared all the T6 drops to my current gear. I assumed hyjal-level gems and factored in human racial and IDS, so this isn't equally applicable to everyone. I found the prospects incredibly disappointing.
Basically, I found the offset Gloves, Chest, and Shoulders to be incredibly poor, and not worth replacing my current equipment (badge loot, ZA loot, and T5 respectively). Both the T6 helm and offset helm are significant upgrades for me and relatively equal. The pants are the only place where it really pays to pass on the token.
Obviously, you'll get different results if you picked up different T5 gear than I did.
I'm wearing T5 gloves and helm, T6 mantle and chest and archi's leggings. For me that's the optimal all-round equipment since it will always allow me to use whichever healing style I want to. The regen bonus from T5 is superior to the T6 healing bonus, since if you're really using Gheal that much it isn't because you have too low HPS, it's to prevent spike damage and thus you're spamming Gheal.
The only place where maths works for healers is gear, and then you still have to factor playstyle. I'm a full discipline priest at the moment and all numbers are against me. Still I save the raid more than any other healer.
As my guild doesn't raid a lot (3/week), we do not farm boss more than necessary (4 Vashj, 3 Kael to tag everyone, Archimonde 4 times maybe, only when we thought we could not used that time to go further in Bt) we always are short on tokens.
And as we only are 2 holy priests in the guild, it seems wiser to give T6 tokens to other class/specs. So I just try to build the most efficient stuff with my t5 tokens (we were quite lucky on the war/druid/priest so i got pants/gloves/shoulders) and the dedicated holy priest items.
2t5 seems strong&cheap combo. So i aim t5 gloves&pants, the akama shoulders (don't like the chicken look), teron helm and ZA chest.
Unfortunatelly no shoulders/helm in maybe 6/7 kills in BT, and no ZA chest (i think i missed one ID since ZA opening :x).
By the way being human and spi addicted, i am very pleased with 2.3 changes, too bad the itemisation did'nt follow. I have Gurtogg chest and Archimonde pants, both are less interesting with 30% meditation.
You're all forgetting one of the most important things, T6 > T5 in looks, the graphic is far better and therefor it would be wise to use T5 pants and gloves.
T5 actually looks pretty good if you don't wear the shoulders (imo). At least on male toons (NE), the T5 shoulders are dumb. My NE is sporting 4/5 T5 with the Akama shoulders, and Belt of the Long Road, and the entire matching set is fairly sexy. It's very "light" -- reminds me a lot in feel to Faith. Not as blue and angel-y, but certainly "holy".
Meanwhile, T6 is darker, and moodier. I prefer T5 in looks, although basically, I'm happy if I can get a consistent set. I got my first complete set since T2 (never completed T3, T4 I got after T5 because it sucks) with T5, and I really like the looks of it. It's purty, and that's something I didn't know I missed.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
The one thing is that the T5 (i dunno if its the vestments or the gloves) is probably the only outfit ever that actually covers an undead's exposed elbows.
When you upgrade to T6 those elbows come right out again. I can't decide if this is a good or bad thing.
There's a few things I just don't understand of some of you.
Sure the 2pc T5 has the capability of being amazing, and it is good for fights like Shaz where you have to gimp your mana regen for SR, and you'll probably be spam healing the tank with Gheal anyways. But why any other fight? I know, personally, that CoH is far more of my healing than Gheal ever used to be, and therefore the extra +healing and stats you get from T6 is far greater than that puny 2pc bonus. Being an officer of my guild, I am very considerate to my healers and always give at least 4 of them a S.Priest. But even so, I never find myself having mana issues unless I am spamming flash heal on trash or something.
In SSC / TK / 1-2 BT fights, sure the 2pc can be nice, but why would you gimp yourself on the stats and +healing of T6? For any priest, +Healing is the best thing to stack, especially if you are CoH. Spirit > MP5 as it gives both +healing and spirit.
Even after keeping up with this thread since reaching T6 content, I still feel that the gain from T6 > bonus from T5.
I would say that of course t6 is better than t5. That's why it drops in the next tier of content. However, for a priest who uses primarily greater heal (like, oh say, that imp. DS priest in the raid) the power of the 2pt5 bonus means that the upgrade is not nearly as big as it is for other classes (and may well not even be an upgrade until you can get 4pt6).
(Healers getting a shadow priest is something that rarely happens in my guild, for example, because we have only one consistent raiding shadow priest.)
The 2xtier5 and 4xtier6 set bonuses are in the end that matters, comparison between item stats per slot are not that important. Both set bonuses are extremely good, however 2xtier5 is much more situational because it's basically useless when you don't need the extra mana, while 4xtier6 is useful pretty much always when you are using Greater Heals. If you are raid healing and not using GH at all, then it's stats but matter of course, but I focus on this post on single target healing with Greater Heal.
I did Illidan with 2xtier5 and 4xtier6 in the last 2 resets, and decided beforehand to focus on getting the maximum benefit from the set bonuses. Here's the WWS parses:
- 2xtier5: WWS Loading...
- 4xtier6: WWS Loading...
I'll explain a bit how the fights went. On 2xtier5 kill, I was MT healing on P1,3,4 and on P2 I was healing our new Flame tank until his add was killed, and raid during the second add. On the 4xtier6 same otherwise, except I was full time on raid during P2, causing a bit different numbers on Greater heals cast. So basically all the normal tanking phases I was trying to get maximum HPS on the main tank, meaning no canceling at all so overhealing went thourgh the roof. This does not matter since I can't decide the damage MT took and how well the others healers played (both kills were 9 healers because new Flame tank), raw healing is the only way to compare the set bonuses. There was a shadow priest in my group, so mana was a non-issue, but in this test it does not make 2xtier5 useless because I'm interested only about the theoretical values. My +healing was 2800+ buffed when 4xtier6, a bit lower when 2xtier5, 5/5 empowered healing.
I'm quite surprised how similar results in the end were. I varied casting GH ranks 1,2,4,7 based on the mana situation, usually trying to keep the mana pool at 70-80% so I will get max benefit from different mana procs (for example clearcasting loses a lot of it's potential when you are full mana when it procs). My raw and effective healing values were on the both fights close to each other, only difference was some GH casts swapped to CoH spam because of P2. 2xtier5 gave me close to 80 mp5 in this fight (16800 mana), while 4xtier6 resulted 600 more healed per cast on average and almost 1k more on maximum values. This means that 4xtier6 casted greater heal gained about a spell rank compared to 2xtier5 with my gear ( 4xtier6 GH rank 1 ~= 2xtier5 GH rank 2). This was compensated when wearing 2xtier5 by casting a bit higher ranks, making the net result pretty much +- 0 when comparing the HPS. We have to remember though that 4xtier6 basically allows 1 extra spell rank, the difference of 4xtier6 and 2xtier5 GH rank 7's is quite huge. Manapool in the end was full when wearing 2xtier5 and ~3k in 4xtier6, however cd's ready.
So which one is better: no idea, just get both and use based on the situation. When you have spriest and you are familiar with the encounter, 4xtier6 is better in my eyes because of the maximum potential HPS. When mana might be a problem, swap to 2xtier5 if you plan to spam, or do the normal cast/cancel high ranks wearing 4xtier6.
Lightwell object increased in size to make it easier to click.
Basically you'll want both sets if you can and everyone else finally has their 4 pieces of T6. Otherwise if you still haven't cleared BT and everyone is fighting over T6 you'll be wiser letting the other members get it first since they upgrade alot more than you. The pieces you might want from T6 are gloves or shoulders and finally that sweet robe, then in the future you lay your hands on the sexy hat.
When you boost your +healing enough, the T6 bonus comes in to use, and might finally get better than T5 since it might let you downrank and save more than 100 mana, you'll especially notice this when you heal warlocks and people in tree-aura groups.
Sure the 2pc T5 has the capability of being amazing, and it is good for fights like Shaz where you have to gimp your mana regen for SR, and you'll probably be spam healing the tank with Gheal anyways. But why any other fight? I know, personally, that CoH is far more of my healing than Gheal ever used to be, and therefore the extra +healing and stats you get from T6 is far greater than that puny 2pc bonus. Being an officer of my guild, I am very considerate to my healers and always give at least 4 of them a S.Priest. But even so, I never find myself having mana issues unless I am spamming flash heal on trash or something.
CoH is more healing than GH? On what fights is that really applicable, honestly? I like CoH as much as the next guy--and it's certainly amazing for padding meters on Teron or Solarian trash in addition to keeping melee alive on fights like Naj'entus--but the majority of fights still rely on GH (or FH) as the primary source of actually saving people from dying. CoH is VERY situational, and downplaying GH's role in a Priest's healing rotation seems a bit odd to me.
I have CoH and I use CoH a lot when it's applicable, but GH is still 70-80% of my healing on a regular basis. I rarely have a full raid where CoH accounts for more than 15% of my total healing.
All that aside... Right now in my full healing (non-Stamina) set, I'm running with the 2-piece T5 bonus (using Helm/Gloves at current), PMC bonus, and Leggings of Eternity. After running some various numbers and having tracked what I get from both bonuses on a regular basis, I highly doubt I will swap out ANY of my current pieces for T6 until I can get the 4-set bonus.
I feel that, overall, the T6 bonus is enough of an improvement that it will easily outweigh the loss of the other two. That said, the individual pieces themselves do not seem to do so. I compared the stats of various combinations of slots with and without the bonuses and found that using 3 pieces of T6 and the Council belt would still be slightly less overall value than the current mix of T5/PMC. While I aim at getting all 4 pieces eventually, I'm pretty much going to opt to allow other classes to take them first that will get a more direct use from them.
I think it all comes down to your role, i personally an at a cross road myself to brake the T5 set, I think its smart to bring the 2 piece set based off what i am healing and what the fight calls for. I personally found it no loss in moving into T6 as I don't run out of mana much anyways.
If i feel the fight calls for a more mana conservative approach i will whip out the old T5 bonus, but i have found in most situations its not a big loss to go with T6. Your heals hit harder which may result in not needing to cast a extra heal or save someone else from casting it to. If its the differance of coming out of trash with 80% mana or 70% whos cares.
Plus you need to look at the new sunwell loot and see kind of what blizzard had in mind with T6, spell haste is going to play a big role in the next upcoming patch. So if the T6 gear hits harder and you cast faster I would start to lean more towards 4 peice T6 bonus. You GH could cast for 1.5 sec, same as your flash heal and you would be netting and extra 600~700 exter per heal with GH7 or 300 ~ 400 more with GH1.
But I am going to keep 2 peices of T5 because there are situations were the 2 set bonus comes in handy.
Ok, this is a pure fashion thing but: Do you know a black/blue healing cloak that actually matches T6? The BT cloaks look incredably shaby imo
And jea, always have 2x T5 with you so you can use it in fight where your mana is a problem and you are healing a tank. The regen while spamming tanks is pretty nice. However I am too lazy usually
Also remember that next patch you will be able to wear 4xtier6 and 2xtier5 at the same time. Considering that the 3 extra tier6 parts drops from the 3 first bosses, it won't be difficult to wear 4xtier6. I would say that 4xtier6 will be the standard for most of the priests, 5% more to greater heal is not something you can get easily from pure +healing on items. And then you have the extra option to add 2xtier5 in cases you might need more mana.
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If you look at the stats you gain and lose though, you give up something like 10-20 mp5, 50 or more healing, and probably a good chunk of haste by keeping 2 pc. T5. If I could gear myself however I wanted, at this point I think I would wear the three new T6 pieces and the shoulders, and then the new offset helm, pants, robes, and gloves.
I would generally agree with that setup, other than the note about using the Exalted ring as well.
The nice thing about that setup is that if, for some reason, you were waiting for drops or wanted the bonus you could easily sub in T5 Helm/Gloves (which are generally the strongest pieces) for the 2-set bonus.
The real question is how much regen do you really need, particularly when that regen is proc'd off of greater heal. With the new int/spirit regeneration, I'm already planning replacing all of my healing/mp5 gems with straight 22 healing gems, just because I have a feeling that the regeneration won't be a huge issue. There were numbers cited on the PTR that innervates will be restoring 21000 mana. Even without innervates, the regen we're looking at going into Sunwell is over 1000 mp5 oo5sr. Given all this I would never sacrifice any slots to devote to maintaining my 2pct5 bonus.
Do note that this is obviously assuming that the current int-spirit regeneration formula manages to go live.
I have a very strong feeling that come 2.4, I will never ever see a shadow priest (and probably not totems either). My regen will be far too innately strong to justify giving me either of those raid buffs, so I'll be largely on my own for regen.
And in a situation like that, given that my guild *never* runs with more than 7 healers (did 6-healer Illidan last night ... interesting challenge) I may still need some regen.
And I know it's specious, but I honestly don't want to swap out my T6 shoulder/chest/gloves if I can help it, because I really don't want to look like a circus clown. I have no idea why they made an entire NEW SET OF GEAR that looks entirely different to T6, and put them as drops in the same dungeon as our (MATCHING) T6 belt/bracer/boots. It's a moronic call. Just make all the offsets match T6, and it becomes a more appealing choice.
[Robes of Faltered Light] vs [Vestments of Absolution] is 8 int, 8 spi, 8 healing, and 32 haste for 9 stamina and 8 Mp5. The gains are *not* huge, unless stacking haste becomes the new thing to do. And I'm not convinced that getting haste on every single piece of gear is the be-all and end-all of life. Remember that if we all dump regen, pick up tons of +22 spinels (note: where are all these spinels coming from? my guild has a waiting list of 17 spinels atm, and no signs of slowing down), and stack haste, we're going to be burning mana a lot faster, with the same or slightly increased regen as compared to 2.3.2. Mages and warlocks are going to *need* the shadow priests in 2.4, so I wouldn't expect healers to get a dedicated one unless you run with 3 (which dps requirements probably won't allow in Sunwell).
I'm looking forward to getting some more +heal in 2.4, definitely, but I'm not going to stack healing/haste until I'm convinced I can afford the regen 'hit'. I know I definitely won't be handed any spinels to re-gem my gear unless they introduce something to make them more accessible: a transmute, badge-sold spinels, etc..
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
For sake of argument, a blue gem is a Sapphire, a red gem is a Spinel, and a yellow gem is a Pyrestone. If you use Shadowsong Amethysts, adjust your calculations accordingly.
As far as gear choices in 2.4, I would say that the following items are no-brainer choices:
So it basically comes down to Helm, Shoulders, Chest, Gloves, and Pants. Everything else is an easy call, and actually
'matches' if you will (i.e. is part of a consistent set, or doesn't show up on the character model).
This one is an interesting call. The gain from Pantaloons is essentially just some spell crit, which is never valued very highly by priests. It's certainly not something we'd ever choose an item especially to get. Assuming you use a Spinel, a Sapphire, and a Pyrestone in Calming Strife, and 3 Sapphires in Eternity, the comparison becomes:
Eternity has 6.6 more IO5SR Mp5; Pantaloons have 37 healing and 25 spell crit. The stamina differential is odd, but functionally meaningless. Given our regen needs in 2.4, Pantaloons edge out Eternity, but require a Spinel and a Pyrestone to do so. In my guild, those are high-demand gems, so unless things change, I'll only take these pants 'eventually' when gems become more available so that they are worth enchanting/wearing.
This is basically the same kind of argument. +3 stamina, -4 intellect, -29 spirit, +4 healing S&E, +2 Mp5 and +33 Haste. Chunk of spirit for a chunk of haste. Not a sufficiently compelling reason to upgrade, so this piece becomes a logical 4th piece for our set bonus.
Same type of argument, one that Light's Purity wins by sheer virtue of being an ilvl 164 item. Probably drops off Kil'Jaedan, so not exactly a 'pick it up when 2.4 comes out' item. Comparison is +15 stam, +10 intellect, -5 spirit, -6 Mp5, +37 healing S&E and 30 Haste.
It's clear the T6->Faltered Light is a definite upgrade, assuming that you don't desperately need the ~ 5 Mp5 differential. It's not a *huge* upgrade unless you consider the haste, though -- 10 int and 8 healing is not enough to justify an immediate OMG.
Conclusion
Worst-case, assuming you don't take all-new gear in Sunwell, and keep some old T6-equiv items, you will gain the haste from neck, wand, boot, belt, bracer, helm. You can also add haste in your shoulder, chest, gloves and weapon slots if you see fit. Minimum amount gained: 145 haste (or roughly 9%). This will drop our GH down to 2.26 seconds, and our CoH down to 1.36 seconds.
Last edited by constantius : 02/29/08 at 5:59 PM.
Reason: Adding more stuff
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
It occurs to me that the 4pc T6 bonus and the 2pc T5 bonus combo quite well for the role of Gheal spammer for the MT of particularly hard-hitting bosses (in order to negate their spike damage potential).
Would this be a viable choice or the net loss of stats would make it not worth the trouble?
If so, which T5 pieces would you consider for this role (pants and helm seem to be a popular choice) and what additional T6 piece (since T6 bracers, boots and belt are pretty much agreed to be the best pieces) would you choose?
This is a non-issue for the raid-healer role though (since you normally use a much varied repertoire for that role) but it should be interesting for spamming lower rank Gheals at eternum.
When I checked about two weeks ago (and I'm pretty sure all the new T6 and offset piece loot was released then), you lose approx. 15 mp5, 60 haste, and 68 healing by keeping 2pc T5. The exact numbers will vary because regen will be a little more variable with differing amounts of intellect and whatnot, but those are decent ballpark figures.
01/11/08, 8:39 AM
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