Raid Debuffs

Kaubel · 08/16/07, 9:32 PM

I'm a damn idiot and deleted the previous thread. (I'll place part of the blame on another user who created another thread on the same topic.) It was sloppy moderation though, and I offer my sincere apologies.

Anyway, use this shiny new thread.

Zurgat · 08/17/07, 3:31 AM

Found out i had copied a bit to our guild forums.

Blizzard's "smart debuffs" only apply to level 60 debuffs.. not lvl 70.

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Let's say we use : (might vary slightly per day)

2 war tanks + 2 dps
Sunder
Demoralizing Shout
Thunderclap / Thunderfury debuff
Deep Wounds
Mortal Strike
Blood Frenzy
- Never Rend

2 Druids - feral
Faerie Fire
Rip
Mangle
- Never Rake or Pounce

2 Shadow priests
SW:P x2
Vampiric touch x2
Vampiric embrace x2
Mindflay x2
Misery
Shadow Weaving

3 Warlocks
Curse of elements
Curse of shadow
CoA
Corruption x 3
UA x3
Imp Shadowbolt
Shadow embrace
- Avoid Siphonlife or Drainlife (unless you will die otherwise)

3 Mages
Imp Scorch
Ignite
Fireball dot (unavoidable sadly)

1 Enhancement shaman
Thunder strike
- No Flameshock

2 Rogues
Rupture x2
Deadly poison x2
Hemorrhage
- No Garrotes

2 Hunters
Imp Hunter's Mark
Scorpid Sting -5% hit chance
Scorpid Poison
- Never viper sting

That's 42 debuffs.
Rogue deadly poison could be kicked off, to make room for the paladin debuffs when we have a ret paladin.
Some bosses are poison / bleed immune though, but that's another matter.

But other than that, we're pretty up on the 40 debuff limit.
Also would still like expose weakness (hunter surv) at some time.

On the subject of "shadow embrace" , any locks with 1-4 points in it, either need to get 5 points in it, or not use it at all.
Curse of Weakness is a waste of a debuff slot it doesn't stack with improved demo shout.

khel · 08/17/07, 3:50 AM

Does shadow embrace actually work globally now? The last I heard, it only reduced the targets damage done to the warlock, instead of his damage done to everyone else as well.

Zurgat · 08/17/07, 4:04 AM

I'm not sure in that regard, but i guess it would need some testing.
If what you say is true that'll save our locks a few talent points.

Rugrud · 08/17/07, 4:20 AM

About debuffs

What's interesting me is the following:
- Do they stack?
- Are they worth casting?
- Are they worth specing the improved version?

Boss damage output reduction:
Thunder Clap (warrior): -10% boss attack speed (-20% talented)
Scorpid Sting (hunter): -5% hit for boss
Insect swarm (Druid talent): -2% hit for boss
Shadow embrace (warlock talent): -5% boss physical damage
Demoralizing shout (warrior): -300 boss AP (-420 talented)
Curse of weakness (warlock): -350 boss AP (-420 talented)
Demoralizing roar (druid): -240 boss AP (336 talented)
Vindication (Paladin talent): -15% boss agi and str

Boss Magical DPS input increase:
Misery (Shadowpriest talent): +5% magical damage
Shadow weaving (Shadowpriest talent): +15% shadow damage
Curse of Shadows (Warlock): +10% shadow/arcane damage (+13% talented)
Curse of the Elements (Warlock): +10% fire/frost damage (+13% talented)
Improved Scorch (Mage talent): +15% fire damage
Winter's Chill (Mage talent): +10% to crit chance for frost
Improved Shadow Bolt (Warlock Talent): +20% shadow damage on a SB crit
Stormstrike (Shaman talent): +20% damage on next 2 nature attacks
Sanctified Crusader (Paladin talent): +3% crit chance

Boss Physical DPS input increase:
Sunder armor (Warrior): -2600 armor
Faerie Fire (Druid): -640 armor (+3% to hit talented)
Expose armor (Rogue): -2050 armor (-3075 talented)
Curse of recklessness (Warlock): -800 armor but +135 boss AP
Expose weakness (hunter talent): +25% of hunt's agi added to raid AP
Blood frenzy (Warrior talent): +4% physical damage
Sanctified Crusader (Paladin talent): +3% crit chance

What have i forgotten?
Which ones stack/don't stack (especially regarding armor/AP/hit reduction)
Which one are worth casting/spec for?

Thanks in advance

sasukekun · 08/17/07, 4:34 AM

Screech (Hunter Bird Pets) is -210 AP, I'm pretty sure it stacks with demoralizing shout (warrior).

Also, 2 hunters using 2 different ranks of Scorpid Poison is 2 debuffs as well.

Darksided · 08/17/07, 4:55 AM

You missed
Blood Frenzy (warrior talent): +4% melee damage

Vindication is currently near worthless to spec in for raids as every boss that I bothered to test it on (SSC and TK) is immune to it. Even a lot of heroic trash is immune

It's apparently getting a nice PVP change in 2.3 where it will lower all stats by 15%, but I can't see Blizzard letting bosses get debuffed by this, if the change goes through at all.

Also, you have Curse of Recklessness listed twice.

Rolapin · 08/17/07, 5:56 AM

You also missed the Improved Fairie Fire debuff (balance druid) : +3% physical hit for the raid.

Hiba · 08/17/07, 6:58 AM

Originally Posted by khel

Does shadow embrace actually work globally now? The last I heard, it only reduced the targets damage done to the warlock, instead of his damage done to everyone else as well.

It has always reduced all the physical damage the mob does.

Sitezem · 08/17/07, 7:19 AM

Unholy weapon enchant: -15 damage from boss attacks (may be with some multiplier, need testing)

Viconya · 08/17/07, 7:25 AM

What's about paladin debuff?

Judgement of wisdom for example is a huge debuff for a lot of casters even for a enhancement shaman..

Spades · 08/17/07, 7:48 AM

Expose and Sunder armor don't play nice. Demo Shout and Curse of Weakness don't stack. Seconding Judgements; Wisdom especially should be up every fight if possible and Light makes certain encounters cake.

Lord BEEF · 08/17/07, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by khel

Does shadow embrace actually work globally now? The last I heard, it only reduced the targets damage done to the warlock, instead of his damage done to everyone else as well.

I think MAYBE POSSIBLY at one point, probably in beta or early release, it only applied to damage done to the warlock. But yeah, it works as you'd expect now.

Dinadass · 08/17/07, 11:54 AM

Most affliction warlocks cast siphon life and immolate in addition to UA, Corr, and a curse. Having some of them respec destro cuts that down to just a curse and maybe corruption or immolate, depending on exact spec/gear/preference. You need to be hitcapped and have high crit and damage (25%+ and 1200+ roughly) in order for destro to even come close to affliction though.

And in response to Rugrud, Curse of Weakness doesn't stack with Imp Demo, so it's useless 99% of the time.

Rhoi · 08/18/07, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by sasukekun

Screech (Hunter Bird Pets) is -210 AP, I'm pretty sure it stacks with demoralizing shout (warrior).

Also, 2 hunters using 2 different ranks of Scorpid Poison is 2 debuffs as well.

i wouldent worry too much about the 2 stacks of scorpid poison. Its getting hit with the nerfbat pretty hard in the next patch from what the PTR is showing (about 200 a tick). i doubt it would be worth the waste of even 1 debuff slot when this happens.