Elitist Jerks [Tanking] Icy Chill Maths

 08/19/07, 9:34 PM #1 Karoshi Piston Honda     Kilh Troll Priest   Gul'dan (EU) [Tanking] Icy Chill Maths I've searched everywhere but yet I wasn't able to find any serious calculations on Icy Chill. If I simply missed the thread feel free to nuke this one. First off, I'm completely helpless when it comes to maths, so I'm not able to provide you with any solid calculations at this time of history (well, I could, but it'd be wrong and... wrong). What I'm trying is to get is a simple comparison between Mongoose and Icy Chill for tanking usage - the overall damage reduction (I'd like to ignore the TPS gain from Mongoose as it's not enough to make a significant difference in my opinion). As I said I'm not very good in anything that requires any calculations, so I did what I was able to and beat on one of those blasted land mobs for several hours; with a lvl 13 sword and Icy Chill (Autoattack only) Within 11682 swings it procced 495 times - every 23,6th swing , aka 1.7 ppm. The weaponspeed was 1,50 and the procc itself ("Chilled, 5 seconds, ... increases time between attacks by 25%") doesn't seem to have any cooldown as it sometimes procced twice within 15 seconds. So... Mongoose provides roughly 4,8% dodge and 240 armor for 15 seconds. At this point I'm completely lost. I'd appreciate any help with the calculations here; I found several formulas for the uptime and things like that, but to be honest, I'm quite sure I'd even mess those up. Thanks in advance. edit: I'm not 100% sure if it can apply to bossmobs, but I wasn't able to find more than anecdotal evidence on the web. Last edited by Karoshi : 08/19/07 at 9:56 PM.
 08/19/07, 10:54 PM #2 nova Glass Joe   Shiôn Night Elf Warrior   Der Abyssische Rat (EU) Hi there, first post here, so please be gentle According to some comments on thottbot, Icy Chill does not stack with Thunderclap. Assuming the "reduced effect against level 60+" (more on that below) makes it less than 20%, and you have a warrior with Improved Thunderclap in your raid, this enchant definitely isn't worth it. Edit: I just went ahead, enchanted a weapon and did some testing against a level 70 player and came up with the following results: The tooltip says "25% weapon speed", but this is not true, similar to Crusader. Normal attackspeed of the victim was 1.80, debuffed 1.56. As far as I know weaponspeed is calculated with 1.80 / 1+x = 1.56 1.80 = 1.56 * 1+x -> Icy Chill modifies attackspeed by ~15.4%. But you might have noticed, the attackspeed actually went *down*. It should have gone *up*, right? I tried to confirm the faster attackspeed with Quartz' swingtimer, and the mage really hit me faster than before. I also have some screenshots of the character screen and a very clean part of the combatlog (no parries, just hit, debuff, hit, debuff fades) should anyone be interested. Next I tested (3/3 Improved) Thunderclap, and attackspeed went up to 1.88, so it does stack - in PvP at least.
 08/20/07, 1:06 AM #3 Ragnor King Hippo   Ragnor Human Paladin   Blackrock Wouldn't their be an extremely high chance for the proc to fizzle on lvl 73 bosses, or are you think along the lines that this spell was overlooked for level scaling? I played around with the trash shield from naxx with the slowing proc @ 70 a bit (Stygian Buckler - Items - World of Warcraft), it used to be godly @ 60 for duels (and for paladin kiting the zombies on Gluth) etc but it just never procs when lvl 70 players/mobs are attacking you. It would be quite strange to find icy chill is actually good for something thesedays since it's always been a bit meh due to it's lowish proc rate. What is your +dmg at in tank gear anyway? I find it hard to believe you couldn't do with more +dmg on your weapon (so you can wear more warrior mitigation plate and/or sustain higher threat) unless you're in full T5/T6 gear. Last edited by Ragnor : 08/20/07 at 1:13 AM. The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest. www.retpaladin.com
08/20/07, 1:12 AM   #4
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by nova Hi there, first post here, so please be gentle According to some comments on thottbot, Icy Chill does not stack with Thunderclap. Assuming the "reduced effect against level 60+" (more on that below) makes it less than 20%, and you have a warrior with Improved Thunderclap in your raid, this enchant definitely isn't worth it. Edit: I just went ahead, enchanted a weapon and did some testing against a level 70 player and came up with the following results: The tooltip says "25% weapon speed", but this is not true, similar to Crusader. Normal attackspeed of the victim was 1.80, debuffed 1.56. As far as I know weaponspeed is calculated with 1.80 / 1+x = 1.56 1.80 = 1.56 * 1+x -> Icy Chill modifies attackspeed by ~15.4%. But you might have noticed, the attackspeed actually went *down*. It should have gone *up*, right? I tried to confirm the faster attackspeed with Quartz' swingtimer, and the mage really hit me faster than before. I also have some screenshots of the character screen and a very clean part of the combatlog (no parries, just hit, debuff, hit, debuff fades) should anyone be interested. Next I tested (3/3 Improved) Thunderclap, and attackspeed went up to 1.88, so it does stack - in PvP at least.
Wow if you're right, I wonder how long this bug has been around. An enchant that gives haste to your enemies is pretty hilarious

I would like to see screenshots just to ensure you're not messing with us.

That's funny as hell. I wonder if it slows at level 60, and the amount slowed gets to a negative value as you level such that at 70 it hastes, or if it's simply a negative value slow at all levels

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 08/20/07, 1:15 AM #5 Ragnor King Hippo   Ragnor Human Paladin   Blackrock Indeed that's a pretty hilarious bug. The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest. www.retpaladin.com
 08/20/07, 1:58 AM #6 panny Bald Bull     Hortez Orc Shaman   Barthilas This makes the Warrior hitting me with his Deep Thunder enchanted with Icy Weapon in AB even more hilarious.
08/20/07, 3:07 AM   #7
nova
Glass Joe

Night Elf Warrior

Der Abyssische Rat (EU)
 Originally Posted by Lord BEEF Wow if you're right, I wonder how long this bug has been around. An enchant that gives haste to your enemies is pretty hilarious I would like to see screenshots just to ensure you're not messing with us. That's funny as hell. I wonder if it slows at level 60, and the amount slowed gets to a negative value as you level such that at 70 it hastes, or if it's simply a negative value slow at all levels
Screens are up:

Icy Chill (speed 1.56)
Corresponding Combatlog
Icy Chill + TC (speed 1.88)

Link to Séraph's Armory (no haste-items.. :>)
The Armory

Last edited by nova : 08/20/07 at 4:58 PM.

 08/23/07, 5:09 PM #8 nova Glass Joe   Shiôn Night Elf Warrior   Der Abyssische Rat (EU) Could anyone confirm this? I kind of don't want to use a Sun Eater with +15% haste on bosses..
08/23/07, 5:44 PM   #9
Rudy
Glass Joe

Draenei Shaman

Zul'Jin
 Originally Posted by nova Could anyone confirm this? I kind of don't want to use a Sun Eater with +15% haste on bosses..
It looks like your testing confirms it pretty well, as long as the debuff is applied to the boss I see no reason not to expect it to haste them.

 08/24/07, 8:49 AM #10 Vaccine Mr. Sandman     Vaccy Night Elf Druid   Argent Dawn (EU) Could it be caused by some kind of miscalculation when they tried to limit its power for TBC? A lot of enchants got scaling so they get progressively worse as your level and the targets get higher. If they tried to implement some scheme to reduce the reduction speed the higher level you go could it be borked and going into negatives at high levels, therefore working out at a haste boost?
 11/22/07, 8:15 AM #11 Karoshi Piston Honda     Kilh Troll Priest   Gul'dan (EU) Has anyone yet been able to test this in the 2.3.2 PTRs? Patchnotes say that it will work as intended now, but I'm curious if that means it will work on lvl 60 mobs and be crap vs. lvl 73 (as intended) or if the effect will be the same vs. everything.
 11/22/07, 9:23 AM #12 Atnair Glass Joe   Procyon Night Elf Rogue   Emerald Dream (EU) This may be a long shot. But when I made a character at a mate's lan party (he had set up a private server), we edited the characters to level 250 to have some fun in instances. But when we gave them haste gear, the attack speed went from 3 seconds up to ~20 seconds. I don't know how they have implemented haste, but at extreme levels it turns negative.
11/22/07, 9:51 AM   #13
Stangg
Von Kaiser

Orc Warrior

Draenor (EU)
 Originally Posted by Atnair This may be a long shot. But when I made a character at a mate's lan party (he had set up a private server), we edited the characters to level 250 to have some fun in instances. But when we gave them haste gear, the attack speed went from 3 seconds up to ~20 seconds. I don't know how they have implemented haste, but at extreme levels it turns negative.
As far as I am aware realistic testing cannot be done on private servers, though correct me if I'm wrong.

 11/22/07, 11:39 AM #14 Karoshi Piston Honda     Kilh Troll Priest   Gul'dan (EU) Private server or not, his conclusion seems right, but what I was asking for are the changes in 2.3.2 and I'm quite certain you don't have any not yet released game versions on any private servers
 11/23/07, 11:01 AM #15 Arangom Glass Joe     Arangom Gnome Warlock   Frostwolf (EU) Nevermind, someone posted about it earlier in the thread, my apologies. Last edited by Arangom : 11/23/07 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Was adressed earlier in the thread

 Elitist Jerks [Tanking] Icy Chill Maths