[Paladin] Healing Efficiency - Page 12

Ragnor · 12/05/07, 10:52 AM

In combat libram switching ruins your ability to cancel your cast before 1.5sec into it and cast on someone else because it causes GCD

tdevil · 12/07/07, 1:39 PM

theres no cast time lost if you use libramiester, it swaps the libram as soon as you cast.

i've been basically running the +79 fol libram and 22mp5 HL libram and the +105 w/ bol.

One thing i can't seem to do properly is get both light's grace buff to pop up w/ nature's enemy cast bar so i can time the HL better.

Yilona · 12/07/07, 1:54 PM

The problem is not lost cast time. The problem is that if you stop your cast just after you've swapped a libram in, you still have a GCD, whereas if you had just cancelled the cast, you wouldn't have a GCD.

This became an unacceptible side-effect for me when I was casting an HL and decided to cancel it to cast LoH to save a tank. However, the tank died because I was on GCD. It was that moment I decided that libram switching during a fight with macros/mods just wasn't worth it.

I still carry around my librams to swap for different encounters, but I no longer use macros to do so in combat.

Saltycracker · 12/07/07, 3:03 PM

Is there an MP5 "soft cap"? I currently have 155 MP5 unbuffed and I am starting MH and BT. I went ret for SSC/TK and now we are lacking paladin healers so I am pulling out all my kara/ssc/tk gear that I grabbed rather than being sharded for healing. Im concerned that I have too much MP5 and not enough healing/crit. Could someone look at my armory and tell me if I am stacking too much MP5? Do MH/BT fights require lots more burst healing in short periods rather than 10-15 min SSC/TK longevity/efficiency fights?

The other paladin that is healing does not have as much MP5 (maybe 120 or so) and I hear him calling out for innervates and "Im oom" frequently. Or should I not worry about this as long as the tank stays alive.

Thanks

Zaran · 12/07/07, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

Is there an MP5 "soft cap"? I currently have 155 MP5 unbuffed and I am starting MH and BT. I went ret for SSC/TK and now we are lacking paladin healers so I am pulling out all my kara/ssc/tk gear that I grabbed rather than being sharded for healing. Im concerned that I have too much MP5 and not enough healing/crit. Could someone look at my armory and tell me if I am stacking too much MP5? Do MH/BT fights require lots more burst healing in short periods rather than 10-15 min SSC/TK longevity/efficiency fights?

The other paladin that is healing does not have as much MP5 (maybe 120 or so) and I hear him calling out for innervates and "Im oom" frequently. Or should I not worry about this as long as the tank stays alive.

Thanks

First... ROFL at your other paladin calling for innervates (He must not know how to manage his mana well, no fight in a tier 5 instance should push even a kara geared pally's mana pool to its lower limits). Secondly 155 mp5 unbuffed does seem strangly high, not that it is a bad stat to have lots of, your crit is quite low. Your current gear would suit you well for FoL spam and nothing but FoL spam. If you had to resort to anything more than the occasional HL you would find yourself having mana issues.

For a slightly more balanced set you could swap your 4 dazzling talasites into gleaming dawnstones (8 spellcrit) and you will be looking much better in terms of balance. Also keep an eye out for a ring and neck with some stats ideally (int actually does add up and help with crit) Kael's neck perhaps and the ring from Najentus are good choices.

Although I do outgear you at the moment, you can have a quick glance at my setup for a very balanced set. I also keep several other trinkets and odds and ends (extra items to stack crit and/or haste for some fights) as they can come in very handy. IE. I can give up a lot of MP5 and get to nearly 50% HL crit raid buffed, or can give up a lot of MP5 and some healing and get a fair amount of spellhaste. These stats do have there place in several fights.

And to give you an idea on fight lengths... (lower end of the time is when well geared and on farm)

Rage - 3-5 mins
Anatheron - 5-6 mins
Kazrogal - 2-4 mins (SR gear here is ideal)
Azgalor - 5-8 mins (some SR to help with silences is ideal)
Archimonde - 6-10 mins (sometimes spend large amounts of the fight not healing)

Najentus - 4-6 mins
Supremus - 7-10 mins (again spend about half the fight not healing)
Akama - 2-4 mins
Teron - 4-6 mins
Bloodboil - 5-8 mins
RoS - 3 phases and full mana after each phase, mana should not be an issue in any
Mother S - 5-8 mins (full SR gear here)
Council - 8-12 mins
Illidan 25 min enrage timer with several phases

galzohar · 12/07/07, 8:06 PM

8 crit gems over 4 int 2 mp5 gems? Not according to any math I know. You'll need a very high base mana (as in shadow priest, shaman support etc) as well as assuming your heals actually crit for 150% without overhealing (at least not more than normal) in order for there to be any question about which gem is better. Unless you show me how the spreadsheet isn't doing it right after you add my corrections (which you can find if you dig on the healadin thread) is wrong, 4 int 2 mp5 is pretty much always better than 8 crit for the sake of mana efficiency (and for the sake of burst for saving a dying tank neither has any effect, actually the 4 int will add a little +healing so it's actually better for burst too, since you're not relying on a crit to save a dying tank - then again burst is quite meaningless if you're going oom).

I would not stack 22 healing anymore

TBH all my math shows that this is probably the best way to go assuming socket bonuses suck (and they usually don't, but at least for red slots). However you probably won't get to ever try this becuase red epic gems are probably better used to increase your caster DPS, but they would still be my prefered gem as a paladin. The efficiency is very similar to 11heal2mp5 or 4 mp5 (as you can see no point in 11 heal 2mp5 as if 2 mp5 > 11 heal you're best with 4 mp5 and if not you're best with 22 healing), however it also provides more burst on top of it which is in most cases effectively increasing your target's stamina, and while it's possible to argue how big of a benefit it is, its value is definitely more than 0, and since 22 healing and 4 mp5 provide rather similar efficiency, 22 healing should be superior becuase of the burst factor. If you always have a shadow priest 22 healing is actually superior efficiency anyway.

Zaran · 12/07/07, 8:37 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

8 crit gems over 4 int 2 mp5 gems? Not according to any math I know. You'll need a very high base mana (as in shadow priest, shaman support etc) as well as assuming your heals actually crit for 150% without overhealing (at least not more than normal) in order for there to be any question about which gem is better. Unless you show me how the spreadsheet isn't doing it right after you add my corrections (which you can find if you dig on the healadin thread) is wrong, 4 int 2 mp5 is pretty much always better than 8 crit for the sake of mana efficiency (and for the sake of burst for saving a dying tank neither has any effect, actually the 4 int will add a little +healing so it's actually better for burst too, since you're not relying on a crit to save a dying tank - then again burst is quite meaningless if you're going oom).

TBH all my math shows that this is probably the best way to go assuming socket bonuses suck (and they usually don't, but at least for red slots). However you probably won't get to ever try this becuase red epic gems are probably better used to increase your caster DPS, but they would still be my prefered gem as a paladin. The efficiency is very similar to 11heal2mp5 or 4 mp5 (as you can see no point in 11 heal 2mp5 as if 2 mp5 > 11 heal you're best with 4 mp5 and if not you're best with 22 healing), however it also provides more burst on top of it which is in most cases effectively increasing your target's stamina, and while it's possible to argue how big of a benefit it is, its value is definitely more than 0, and since 22 healing and 4 mp5 provide rather similar efficiency, 22 healing should be superior becuase of the burst factor. If you always have a shadow priest 22 healing is actually superior efficiency anyway.

He asked what worked. Spreadsheet math is fine, and often works well, however for a more balanced healing build 14%~ crit on a paladin is low, very low. To each his own and if you want to live to a spreadsheet over practical testing then by all means. I don't care how much MP5 I had, there is a certain amount of crit its just nice to have. To each there own tho.

tdevil · 12/10/07, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by Yilona

The problem is not lost cast time. The problem is that if you stop your cast just after you've swapped a libram in, you still have a GCD, whereas if you had just cancelled the cast, you wouldn't have a GCD.

This became an unacceptible side-effect for me when I was casting an HL and decided to cancel it to cast LoH to save a tank. However, the tank died because I was on GCD. It was that moment I decided that libram switching during a fight with macros/mods just wasn't worth it.

I still carry around my librams to swap for different encounters, but I no longer use macros to do so in combat.

Good point, i actually never thought of that.

I just blame the druids/shammies/priests if the MT dies and i couldnt get a bomb heal off in time =P

LOH on a tank, thats pretty desperate.

(Anyone know of a mod that can be configured to show both light's grace timers?)

Naive · 12/16/07, 7:52 AM

Originally Posted by tdevil

(Anyone know of a mod that can be configured to show both light's grace timers?)

I'd like a simple mod that did this too.

Rerolled · 12/16/07, 8:12 PM

http://www.wowace.com/wiki/ClassTimer

Actually does a fair bit more than just Light's Grace, but it uses very little memory and suits this specific purpose well.

vorda · 12/16/07, 11:15 PM

Or if you use Elkbuffbars, you can make a seperate buffbar just for Light's Grace (I have mine underneath my Grid).

Quozzy · 12/16/07, 11:20 PM

I'll throw another option into the hat

I use SorrenTimers, got it setup to show my judgement on the boss, and light's grace.

Nice and small highly configurable, got it tagged onto my grid aswell.