Tpyo

Curious what you guys think for 2.2 given the spell haste buff(for the Flash spammers such as myself, for when we need the more HPS and use Holy Lights):

[Blessed Band of Karabor] or [Band of the Eternal Restorer]

(forgive my lack of links, couldn't figure it out)

 

jusion

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. It would depend on the proc rate of the Band of the Eternal Restorer for me.

 

Tpyo

Well I use Naj ring for my other ring slot.. since in my mind it's clearly the best paladin healing ring in the game. For the 2nd ring.. it comes down to: (with BoK)

+88 Health; 82.5 Mana; 4mp5; +0.08% spell crit; 10% chance on cast to gain +175 heal for 10seconds(and I'll assume a 45sec ICD)

vs.

+7.1 heal; 2% Spell Haste

It may sound obvious at first, but there's many fights where I don't go close to OOM with consumables anyway so the Mana, Mp5, crit can all be devalued somewhat.. then again due to large overheal % nowadays +heal can be devalued as well.. as is I'm leaning towards the Eternal Restorer since overall it seems like more HPS gained due to my FoLspam playstyle.

 

• Karakas

Why do you consider the Naj ring the best Pally ring, especially given your FoLspam playstyle?

I would value pure +heal and perhaps mp/5 moreso than crit with FoLspam.

 

Tpyo

Mana is never an issue.. and I believe it provides the most HPS out of any ring in the game. No? At this point I'm trying to get rid of some Mp5 for crit(T6/RoS Helm, Supremus Shield). I'm a big advocate of maximizing HPS.. in most cases for FoL.

 

Ragnor

I can't see how FoL is going to maximize HPS at all vs sub 2sec (eg: 1.5) HL (Rank x) + BoL

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• Mongoe

Two things though:
1) That's true only if you're wearing 4pc T5 and you are healing the MT. We have paladins on raid heals quite frequently and those targets will almost never have BoL. And VR has been a real a-hole as far as Champion drops go-he's dropped 2 so far and both went to rogues.

2) Question: At what point does the superior +heal and crit of T6 overcome the T5 set bonus for Tank healing? I suppose I should use one of those fancy spreadsheets...(/sigh anyone want to take a stab at average heal/crit numbers for a 4pc t5 paladin and a 4 pc T6 paladin?) But at some point, I would imagine enough heal and crit can make FoL > 1.75 HL.

 

Renew

I am not a fan of trying to get away with only using 1 spell for everything. Different encounters, healing assignments etc will usually require you to adjust with the content, not really the gear. Once you can start using lesser ranks of spells, your gear is probably above the zone you are in and IMO it becomes a moot point.

From playing on my Priest pre BC till now my spell ranks have changed with the content. Bosses hit harder and you need to adjust.

- In Naxxramas I was happy with 1-1.2k heals.
- Tier 4, 2k was a safe number.
- Now I hate going below 3k+ (at least on a tank).

Confidence is not Arrogance.

 

• Karakas

FOL Rank 7 has a higher coefficient for +heal than HL rank 4, so as your +heal increases the HPS of FOL scales better (but only in a direct comparison between FOL and HL r4, obviously higher ranks of HL are much much better in terms of scaling).

 

Natural

For question #2, I believe Yilumi addressed this exact question in a few posts earlier in the thread. The answer will depend on the encounter, because the "superior" gear and spell will depend on whether you value efficiency or HPS. 4-PC T5 has the fastest HPS with HL spam (and probably will for awhile). The best efficiency will depend on buffs/gear and amount of HPS needed (how much you can downrank). Check out the spreadsheet.

 

Sterlin

I have read this tread with great interest. I'm 4/5 T5 and have some of the normal end game healing gear... SSC Pally Boots, Tryptic Shield, Virtous Shard, Naaru Band, Band of Halos, Etc..

I was playing around with my gear and it seems like the question of +healing is about preferences. All you can really do is switch out trinkets, switch out some enchants, and switch out some gems to make the +healing difference.

I constantly get asked +30 INT for weapon vs +81 healing vs. Spellsurge OR the 30 healing bracers vs the Mp5. Or even better yet the trinket selection of LCPB, Rejub Gem, Piston, Martyr, Pendant of Violet Eye, Gruul Gem, TK Pally Trink, Alchemist Stone.

Almost every BG I go to, I always get asked, what is my +healing.. Like +healing is the end all be all (which it isn't). The response I usually say is, it depends what fight, what group, and who I am assigned to heal. I never go to a boss fight without my Alchmist stone, cause I'm chugging mana pots. Sadly, my raid leader knows this and NEVER gives me a shadow priest - such is life.

So, the answer I give is that anywhere from 1600-1800 Plus healing is pretty good for end game, depending on what you are doing and what fight and what the other variables of your stats are - Mp5, Crit, and Mana Pool.

For my personal taste, I'm sitting around 1650+ with a mana pool of 12K with about 128 casting Mp5 (using the Fel Reaver Piston and Alchemist Stone), and around 24% Holy Crit (So, 30% with Holy Light) I Use Libram of Souls Redeemed since I'm 99.9% MT healer. My Gems are a mix of INT, Crit, Heal, and Mp5 - so I go for the mix versus one particular style.

Just my 2 cents to the topic.

 

gospel

To be honest, from what content I have seen and will see, I can't everr imagine a situation where I would need to downrank for efficiency. Either they're gonna need a big HL or FoL will do just fine. If I have a shaman or shadow priest in my group forget about it. Especially with most fights being 10ish minutes. Even Kael'Thas being 20min I hardly ever needed to pot.

Overhealing never killed anybody. I really think this is unnecessary for paladins. Efficiency != Practical or necessary.

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Shelendil

I almost never have a shadow priest or shaman; the two exceptions being Mother (at which point gear theorycrafting mostly goes out the window) and Council. But for any practical situation currently, HL 9 will have better healing per mana than HL 8, 10, or 11. My primary heals are HL 11, 9, and flash 7, and I think it really does make a difference.

 

Covertghost

HL 11, 9, 5 are basically the only ranks you should ever use. 4 is garbage because it really can't reach good enough throughput (though it can be OK if you can afford raidwide light).

 

Shelendil

I never really understood the point of using HL 4, actually. Once you reach T6 gear your flash heals for the same amount as HL 4 even with raid-wide BoL available. No matter how much haste you throw on top of your T5 bonus, by definition the lowest cast time is 1.5 sec. Flash will always cost less mana. The only benefit left is uptime on Light's Grace, which you can manage yourself as necessary.

How often do you really use HL 5 as compared to flash? I do have a lower rank of HL on my bars, but I use it perhaps once or twice per raid. I find it very situational.

 

Covertghost

My HLs are under 1.6s now (2.0s on ptr without light's grace!), I've forsaken FoL in raids completely, so I typically use HL5 as the substitute for FoL now.

Before I got super hasted out I never used HL5, just ranks 9,11 and max rank FoL. I just don't really understand the point of casting HL4 from a theorycrafting perspective I guess. You're saving maybe a few mp5 in efficiency, perhaps, but the level of throughput you give up is not worthwhile in my opinion.

Also, you can scale up mp5 through pots, but it's much harder to scale throughput with pots/buffs.

 

gospel

So, I'm sitting here trying to honestly understand when to use down-ranked HLs. I already end most fights with mana to spare (regardless of not having a SP/shaman). If I have to hit the pot button once or twice I don't really see the big deal.

Are there fights (I have done 3/5HJ,3/9BT) coming up where it is "necessary" to down rank? Because, so far, I have yet to do a fight where it even crossed my mind. The only exception may have been Kaz'rogal... but he's gonna burn my mana anyways so even then it seems moot. When is it appropriate and which fights exactly.

Even Naj'entus, which I am told is one of the most difficult healing fights, didn't seem like much of a man challenge either. -> WWS Naj'entus

So, I guess I am trying to say is, is down-ranking really anything beyond theoretical? Can I get some first-hand experiences of when it was necessary?

Thanks for reading ;o

Jesus: "I can offer you eternal Salvation."
Disciples: "Can I get Might or Kings instead?"

http://www.xckd.com/318/

 

Fedondrin

hey guys i could use some help figuring out the best way to optimize my healing with the low end 25man raid gear i have my armory link is The Armory
any help would be greatly appreciated as i find it hard to completely understand the numerical data

 

jusion

It all just depends on what your job is, how many healers you use, how you arrange them, how your guilds' DPS is, and what rolls your tank is getting. We usually roll with 7-8 healers, and I'm usually on some sort of tank healing. Having said that, I usually need to downrank on Mother, Illidari Council, Illidan, and probably Gurtogg. Nothing else really requires it for me, but I do it just to be safe most of the time. I'd rather have some extra mana in case one of our healers die, DPS takes longer, etc. Plus, most of the time the extra healing from ranks 9 and 11 just end up as overheal. I usually stick with rank 7, upranking to 9 or 11 when the tank seems to be getting spiked, or is staying low.

EDIT: Kaz'rogal has basically no damage going around, so I usually don't even have to HL at all on that fight, even with 6 healers. Kael'thas really isn't healing intensive at all, despite being a long fight. Naj'entus really isn't bad either, there's just a lot of damage going around. Naj'entus himself really doesn't hit hard at all.

 

gospel

Thanks for the advice. It gives me some solid food for thought in testing out down-ranking on my own.

And, yeah, being a paladin I'm generally on MT duty. I think I just have the fortune of rolling with a lot of druids and our healing core is one of my guild's strongest attributes. Generally, my overheal even with FoL is pretty high, and I think most of it is attributed to the excelldent healers b/s myself (generally 7-8 give or take).

Nice to see I'm not the only person using blue trinkets ;/

Jesus: "I can offer you eternal Salvation."
Disciples: "Can I get Might or Kings instead?"

http://www.xckd.com/318/

 

Yilona

I don't downrank specifically for efficiency because I'm running out of mana. What you use for your small heals/big heal is up to your gear, the raid makeup, the healing assignments, and the encounter, as was previously mentioned. For small heals, you can use FoL or some downranked version of HL. For big heals, it can be any of the higher ranks of HL.

When I first started creating the spreadsheet, my questions to myself were:

- Of the smaller and bigger heals available to me, which ones are the most efficient at providing the healing/s I need to keep people alive?
- How do the T5/T6 set bonuses affect what I would think is the most efficient healing (basically gut feeling vs. calculated numbers)?

I don't *worry* about running out of mana, but I would still like to stay as efficient as I can and be as prepared as I can. You never know... some fluke may happen and 3 healers may suddenly die during a 20 minute boss fight; at least then we still have a chance of succeeding because I'm (and other healers) are still in good shape mana-wise.

Using max ranks works, too, and if you find yourself not running out of mana or anything using those because of your particular healing style and your guild's healing makeup, then don't worry about it.

 

jusion

Yeah, we don't really have many choices there. :\ And with Mementos going for like 50+ DKP, I think I'll have blue trinkets for a while. :p

EDIT: I'm seriously contemplating using Cloak of the Illidari Council - Items - World of Warcraft over the Pure Hearted Cloak, the Illidan Cloak, or the Gurtogg Cloak.

Rating spell crit rating as 2, +healing as 1, mp5 as 2 (even 3, or 4. I don't like mp5 much at all though. I'd rather just pot and have more +healing or crit. Obviously if you value mp5 at 5, 6, or 7, the Pure Hearted Cloak comes out on top), and spell haste as .6 or below, it beats all of them. The only one that comes close is the Shroud of the Highborne. If I rate that closer to 1, its better, but I'm not totally sold on spell haste. And if I'm not stacking any of it, is there a point to have 32 spell haste lying around?

Cloak of the Illidari Council: (25 crit rating x 2) + 42 healing + 6.2 healing from int + (~4.9 crit rating from int x 2) = 107.9
Stainless Cloak of Pure Hearted = 53 healing + (7mp5 x 2) + 8.9 healing from int + (7~ crit rating from int x 2) = 89.9
Shroud of Forgiveness = 79 healing + ~8 healing from int + (7~ crit rating from int x 2) = 101
Shroud of the Highborne = (32 haste x .5) + 68 healing + 8.9 healing from int + (7~ crit rating from int x 2) = 106.9

The only way Highborne becomes better for me is if I rate haste above .6. And, again, it seems like wasted spell haste for me. I know my math is probably wrong-ish for the crit rating from int, but unless its way off, I think my assumption stands.

 

Wulfsblood

I've got a tankadin who's currently experimenting with a 20/41/0 build to act as an offhealer in fights where he's not needed to tank. He currently has about 15.4 spellcrit and 100 mp5 in his (mainly Kara-level) healing gear. Does Illumination give decent enough returns without the later spell crit talents to make this build viable, or would I be better off just using MP5-based healing gear and using a non-illumination pure tanking build?

 

Yilona

I believe it was mentioned somewhere that they're adding a new healing cloak. I tried to find the stats/mention of it on mmo champion, but couldn't find it. I know for us, I wouldn't have any chance at the Illidari Council cloak for a long time, and Blizz may add a healing cloak with crit on it (maybe in ZA, too).

 

jusion

That would be really nice. We're kind of boned for cloaks at the moment if one doesn't want spell haste.