I would not stack 22 healing anymore. Most of the paladins who you see did that downrank VERY heavily to get extremely large low rank heals. With the BoL nerf, I just don't see that being viable any more. If you want to go FoL you'd probably want hybrid gems with some mixture of healing/mp5/int in something like a 2:1:1 ratio (ie, use all hybrid gems with healing, and try to split those between int/mp5 as the second stat). That is, if you feel you could use more int/mp5. Some people feel that they have plenty of mana (if you have a shadow priest all the time, this is for you), so in that case yes, 22 healing. If for some reason you want to still be HL-heavy, you want lots of healing/crit from your gems.

Of course, don't gem stupid... if you need to break these rules to get a +7/9 healing socket bonus, for example, you probably should. Also, if you have a wierd healing style, play around with which stats are best for you in the spreadsheets (in the link below).

Also, lets keep posting in the new healadin thread, keep this kind of stuff centralized!

Max rank Flash of Light should not be affected by the Blessing of Light nerf, therefore, stacking +22healing gems is prolly still the best way to go (especially with its insane base efficiency).

Based on 2200 +healing and the 5% tier 6 bonus, max rank FoL spam sans crits puts out around 1420 HPS, where max rank Holy Light spam is at around 2560 HPS (plus an additional 6% crit, or 11% with the bonus).

Considering that FoL is approaching a 12:1 H/M ratio at that level, while HL hovers around 6:1, the difference in healing power certainly isn't that tremendous. FoL scales extremely well in terms of mana efficiency, and even better in terms of relative healing power (i.e. it triples in power over the base spell with that much +healing). It certainly scales much better than Holy Light, which comes off looking rather weak compared to equivalent priest/shaman/druid "large" healing spells.

If you ever felt that Flash of Light was worth using, then there should never be a time when it suddenly stops being worth using.

The problem isn't that FoL isn't worth casting, it's that we can't keep Light's Grace up while doing so. Perhaps with a high +healing and +crit gearset FoL would achieve high enough HPS to be competitive with other healers. Unfortunately it only works really well with BoL or pallys could be quality raid patching, not comparative to the raw output of Chain Heal, but high enough to clean up the ones they miss. Of course there is the downside of pressing one button (sometimes Cleanse!) for an entire raid...

Sadly without BoL mis-scaling and with the awesome new T5 set bonuses(bonii?) it's either that or play with keeping Light's Grace up (rank 1 HL perhaps? I've seen shamans do similar things with healing way but their rank 1 is much quicker) so that somehow so we can emergency tank heal worth a damn.

Is this spreadsheet going to be updated to account to the 2.3 BOL nerf? I'm finding that HL 4-5 don't have the throughput(hps), and HL6-9 don't have the efficiency(hpm). Maybe it's time [for me] to spec out of HL and into fol...

I haven't had a chance to update it, and I don't know if I will any time soon, so anyone who wants to is welcome to have at it. =)

However, with the BoL, T5, and haste change, I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that FoL spam is the most efficient thing you can do, these days. The original reason for the spreadsheet's existence was because FoL and lower ranks of HL were close in efficiency and HPS, so I was trying to find which one was actually better, but that's definitely not the case anymore.

Are you saying that BoL's downranking penalty does not coincide with the actual spell's coefficient?

BOL has been a straight addidtion for both HL 4-11 and all ranks of flash since release. It's not a +healing like effect.

The penalty is (spell_level+11)/70. Someone here came up with and tested it (I never remember who) and it was confirmed by others. So FoL rank 6 will get a 69/70 penalty.

Someone else here tested the new BoL penalty, Fiola I think it was.

All the patch did was stop people using R4 & R7 HL which is probably fair enough imo.

R7 FoL, R9 & R11 HL still all work perfectly well, R9 is still awesome hp/mana.

You, sir, should read the 2.3 patch notes. They added a downranking penalty to blessing of light ;P

well i think HL R11 ist extremly powerfull with crit. with my 2t6 i have a 40-43%crit chance for HL. i did some math and it comes out that HL11 cost only 638mana if i have 40%crit. i try to push my crit to 45-50% so the manacost will lower to 588mana. i never have realy problems with mana (an no i didn't have a shadow all the time) but wiht a high critrate you can realy spam holy light without going oom. i mean yea you must use a pot on CD and interrupt some heals if the target is at full HP

i use HL8 und 11 very often these are my most used healspells. yea FoL ist realy good in mana/heal but the outkomming heal is still very low.

and sorry about my bad english :P

I recently bought [Libram of Mending] and I'm testing incombat swapping it with [Libram of Souls Redeemed] (with addon Librameister).

Assuming I'm MT healing (with BoL) Souls Redeemed can be loosely reworded as:
- Increases the healing done by your Flash of Light by up to 244.
- Increases the healing done by your Holy Light by up to 148.

I've configured Librameister to use Souls Redeemed when I cast FoL and Mending when I use HL.

As we can see HL receives smaller bonus from Souls Redeemed and swapping to Mending can potentially give me 44 mana back per HL casted. As Mending doesn't affect FoL at all I'm better off getting the +244 healing effect of Souls Redeemed.

Thus far I've been happy with the results - only thing that is a bit annoying is the sound that comes from libram equip =)

What do you think - does this kind of swapping affect my efficiency positively and is it worth the hassle?


(Spells I usually use are FoL7, HL7 and HL11 - sometimes HL4 if I want to be 100% sure my Light's Grace is up.)

In combat libram switching ruins your ability to cancel your cast before 1.5sec into it and cast on someone else because it causes GCD

theres no cast time lost if you use libramiester, it swaps the libram as soon as you cast.

i've been basically running the +79 fol libram and 22mp5 HL libram and the +105 w/ bol.

One thing i can't seem to do properly is get both light's grace buff to pop up w/ nature's enemy cast bar so i can time the HL better.

The problem is not lost cast time. The problem is that if you stop your cast just after you've swapped a libram in, you still have a GCD, whereas if you had just cancelled the cast, you wouldn't have a GCD.

This became an unacceptible side-effect for me when I was casting an HL and decided to cancel it to cast LoH to save a tank. However, the tank died because I was on GCD. It was that moment I decided that libram switching during a fight with macros/mods just wasn't worth it. I still carry around my librams to swap for different encounters, but I no longer use macros to do so in combat.

First... ROFL at your other paladin calling for innervates (He must not know how to manage his mana well, no fight in a tier 5 instance should push even a kara geared pally's mana pool to its lower limits). Secondly 155 mp5 unbuffed does seem strangly high, not that it is a bad stat to have lots of, your crit is quite low. Your current gear would suit you well for FoL spam and nothing but FoL spam. If you had to resort to anything more than the occasional HL you would find yourself having mana issues.

For a slightly more balanced set you could swap your 4 dazzling talasites into gleaming dawnstones (8 spellcrit) and you will be looking much better in terms of balance. Also keep an eye out for a ring and neck with some stats ideally (int actually does add up and help with crit) Kael's neck perhaps and the ring from Najentus are good choices.

Although I do outgear you at the moment, you can have a quick glance at my setup for a very balanced set. I also keep several other trinkets and odds and ends (extra items to stack crit and/or haste for some fights) as they can come in very handy. IE. I can give up a lot of MP5 and get to nearly 50% HL crit raid buffed, or can give up a lot of MP5 and some healing and get a fair amount of spellhaste. These stats do have there place in several fights.

And to give you an idea on fight lengths... (lower end of the time is when well geared and on farm)

Rage - 3-5 mins
Anatheron - 5-6 mins
Kazrogal - 2-4 mins (SR gear here is ideal)
Azgalor - 5-8 mins (some SR to help with silences is ideal)
Archimonde - 6-10 mins (sometimes spend large amounts of the fight not healing)

Najentus - 4-6 mins
Supremus - 7-10 mins (again spend about half the fight not healing)
Akama - 2-4 mins
Teron - 4-6 mins
Bloodboil - 5-8 mins
RoS - 3 phases and full mana after each phase, mana should not be an issue in any
Mother S - 5-8 mins (full SR gear here)
Council - 8-12 mins
Illidan 25 min enrage timer with several phases

8 crit gems over 4 int 2 mp5 gems? Not according to any math I know. You'll need a very high base mana (as in shadow priest, shaman support etc) as well as assuming your heals actually crit for 150% without overhealing (at least not more than normal) in order for there to be any question about which gem is better. Unless you show me how the spreadsheet isn't doing it right after you add my corrections (which you can find if you dig on the healadin thread) is wrong, 4 int 2 mp5 is pretty much always better than 8 crit for the sake of mana efficiency (and for the sake of burst for saving a dying tank neither has any effect, actually the 4 int will add a little +healing so it's actually better for burst too, since you're not relying on a crit to save a dying tank - then again burst is quite meaningless if you're going oom).

TBH all my math shows that this is probably the best way to go assuming socket bonuses suck (and they usually don't, but at least for red slots). However you probably won't get to ever try this becuase red epic gems are probably better used to increase your caster DPS, but they would still be my prefered gem as a paladin. The efficiency is very similar to 11heal2mp5 or 4 mp5 (as you can see no point in 11 heal 2mp5 as if 2 mp5 > 11 heal you're best with 4 mp5 and if not you're best with 22 healing), however it also provides more burst on top of it which is in most cases effectively increasing your target's stamina, and while it's possible to argue how big of a benefit it is, its value is definitely more than 0, and since 22 healing and 4 mp5 provide rather similar efficiency, 22 healing should be superior becuase of the burst factor. If you always have a shadow priest 22 healing is actually superior efficiency anyway.

He asked what worked. Spreadsheet math is fine, and often works well, however for a more balanced healing build 14%~ crit on a paladin is low, very low. To each his own and if you want to live to a spreadsheet over practical testing then by all means. I don't care how much MP5 I had, there is a certain amount of crit its just nice to have. To each there own tho.

Good point, i actually never thought of that.

I just blame the druids/shammies/priests if the MT dies and i couldnt get a bomb heal off in time =P

LOH on a tank, thats pretty desperate.

(Anyone know of a mod that can be configured to show both light's grace timers?)

I'd like a simple mod that did this too.

http://www.wowace.com/wiki/ClassTimer

Actually does a fair bit more than just Light's Grace, but it uses very little memory and suits this specific purpose well.