Sarlunas

Luckily for me I've already done such a test back in July for another thread on this forum. Takes an awful lot of time to get a reasonable sample size when you have one attack every 4 sec.

http://elitistjerks.com/427220-post28.html

Both tests were done with a mace so no difference in normalized speed. There was no haste or fiery involved back then but I still think that test is valid unless there's been a change of the mechanics in the last two months.

 

Rezarel

It looks like Crusader follows the same mechanic as Fiery and Lifestealing.

And, a huge thanks to everyone else who's done testing to figure out how this mechanic works.

 

• Vulajin

Excellent, that was exactly what I was looking for. Your test is definitely valid, at least to the best of my knowledge; it was performed during patch 2.1, and everything we've seen in the thread thus far suggests that the behavior of BC PPM procs during patch 2.1 is the same as what it is in patch 2.2.

Barring any need for further evidence to statistically support yours, I think we can safely conclude at this point that proc rates are recalculated on white attacks for BC PPM procs based on haste effects at any given time, but the proc rates on special attacks are fixed based on the base speed of the main hand weapon.

 

Rezarel

A minor word choice correction: the proc chance drops while hasted; the PPM rate stays constant. We don't want to make people think that hastes actually lower the number of procs they see. I caused enough confusion with the original wording of the first post... Good detailed summary, I linked it from the thread summary section.

 

soujeh

Nice testing Does this also applies to Stormherald proc with Flurry ?

Err, and what is the proc rate for the stun proc on Stormherald normally, anyways ? Thinking towards if this wep really is worth using over a weapon like Torch of the Damned for PvP, just because of the proc.

 

Bloodletter

Actually i have one more question.. being a sword rogue, i get sword extra atk procs.

1- Can those sword procs proc effects other then them? (for ex: Mongoose)
2- If yes are they considered white or special hits? (in terms of proc mechanics ofc)

 

bellator

Just thought i would add some additional evidence to this haste/ppm/proc chance discussion which has arisen from the following paladin forum

Retadin use in raids?

A test was conducted on a paladin's ability Seal of Vengeance which procs off melee hits and has a PPM base value of 20.

What this means is that when attacking with a 3.0 speed weapon and zero haste, the proc change is 100%, and it can be seen that hitting with any weapon of speed greater than or equal to 3.0 shows a 100% proc chance.

However a test was done showing that when a 3.0 weapon was used with 189 haste rating, Seal of Vengeance would not always proc off melee hits, thus implying that haste had reduced the proc change of SoV to keep the 20 PPM constant.

Two additional tests were done, a slight aside here, and the conclusions probably already known, but i include them for completeness:-

1) When a 3.0 speed weapon was used with 0 haste rating and a windfury totem, the proc chance of seal of vengeance remained at 100% and this windfury increased the PPM of SoV.

2) When a 2.9 speed weapon was used with 0 haste rating, the proc rate (as expected) for SoV was not 100%. This was conduceted on a lvl70 mob attacking from the front to see if miss/dodge/parry percentages were used in any in the conversion of PPM to proc chance. If they were included the effective speed of the weapon would have been > 3.0 and the proc chance would have been 100% which it was not. Thus miss/dodge/parry will decrease the number of procs per minute seen.

 

Commacozzee

way old thread, i know, i'm doing some proc research myself, and came across this thread. there's a bit of confusion i noticed very early on and very often...

i think about page 2-4 is dedicated on the confusion created by the misuse of the word PPM (Proc Per Minute). there are many posts throughout the whole thread that make this mistake.

PPM = how often it procs in a minute's time, on average.

% chance on hit = isn't it obvious?

from all the testing done, PPM is consistent for every enchant except the old world enchants mentioned above, no matter the weapon speed (i'm talking about white hit auto-attacks obviously, since it seems inconclusive and extremely hard to test for yellow attacks). this means that when you increase haste, YES % chance to hit goes down, but now you are hitting more often, and PPM stays the same.

it seems logical that when the RNG decides whether or not a proc occurs, it takes the weapon speed at that instantaneous moment (that comes directly from your character screen) and incorporates the proc's PPM to create a % chance on hit (something like PPM * [weapon speed] / 60 * 100% = % chance to hit ).