lootzor.com - World of Warcraft search and rate items - profile your wow character is a simple website that effectively creates an item comparison spreadsheet from the base states of the item. It allows direct linking to the output page, and also shows the stats that were used to get to that output. It has some major flaws that a more detailed spreadsheet would fix (set bonuses, no haste rating or -armor yet, trinkets don't reflect their procs or clicky abilities), but as a starting point it does its job well.
One of the big advantages it has is that I can point someone to the website and easily show them what gear to look for. This is very useful for cross-class loot discussions to point out how valuable or weak a specific item is and for helping people figure out how to set up their alts. Unfortunately, pointing someone to the site also requires having the base information to plug in AND to know about the stats that might be ignored (like set bonuses and haste).
So I have two questions - What does your lootzor look like and which items are underevaluated for that because of stuff that it isn't set up for currently?
Well, my initial comment would be that while it's a cool idea, it's severely lacking in implementation. There are significant quantities of information that the sheet doesn't take as inputs (for instance, any statistics about one's offhand weapon, any mention of haste, armor penetration, or procs on gear, etc.) which means that it's going to be sort of doomed from the get-go in terms of producing accurate results.
The second problem is that it doesn't seem to adjust it's gear formula correctly by class; for instance, entering in my stats as a rogue, it tells me that the 2nd best helm in the game is Cowl of Beastly Rage, which is a terrible rogue item. Moreover, it says that the best available neck is Archaedic Shard, and the best available cloak is Thoriumweave. Clearly it's way overvaluing armor value for rogues.
For that matter, it recommends Pillar of Ferocity as a 2-Handed weapon, and the only 1H weapon it comes up with for me is The Unbreakable Will - neither of which precisely makes sense from a rogues point of view.
In terms of gemming, I note that it's using Swift Skyfire Diamond as the metagem recommendation for all helms, which is clearly and vastly inferior to both Relentless Earthstorm Diamond and Thundering Skyfire Diamond. It's also recommending Radiant Spencerite and TCHILTON TEST RUBY for all colored sockets, which has two problems:
a) neither of these actually exist, and
b) both are clearly inferior to other available options.
All in all - it needs a fair bit of work, i would argue.
The second problem is that it doesn't seem to adjust it's gear formula correctly by class; for instance, entering in my stats as a rogue, it tells me that the 2nd best helm in the game is Cowl of Beastly Rage, which is a terrible rogue item. Moreover, it says that the best available neck is Archaedic Shard, and the best available cloak is Thoriumweave. Clearly it's way overvaluing armor value for rogues.
I think the part I've bolded is why you're having a problem. You don't enter in your stats, you enter a weight that describes how important that stat is to you. If you've entered your current armor value (typically in the thousands) and your current agility value (typically in the hundreds) you're telling lootzor to score loot such that armor is ~ 10 times more important to you than agility. The best example of how lootzor is supposed to work is in the first post of the enhancement shaman theorycraft thread, here:
Oh, I see. So, it basically does the same thing as Allakhazam's advanced search does? My bad. I was expecting it to compute those weightings for you, since a tool that just multiplies out the weighting values doesn't seem like anything particularly new. I suppose it would have helped had I taken the time to read the instructions, eh?
I hadn't seen Alla's search in some time. Quite nice. Right off, I can say one thing Lootzor has over it - Lootzor tries to fit the best kind of gem into sockets, scoring the item accordingly. It'll even try to satisfy socket bonuses when possible, or ignore them if it can get a better deal that way. This saves a great deal of time, as with Alla, it seems I would have to weight "[color] socket" the same as the best gem I could find for it, and it still wouldn't account for socket bonuses.
Alla, by contrast, will let you weight more things than Lootzor does. The lack of haste support is admittedly annoying. Also annoying is Lootzor's lack of info for the sources of many items; it really comes across as a work in progress.
Yet another feature these searches lack is a way to assess the whole outfit together. I doubt Lootzor, for example, would weight a Spellfire Vest more highly than some alternative because it would break your set.
Somewhat related note: yes, I value spell hit slightly more than +dmg, but if I followed that weighting for every slot, I'd end up with around, oh, 455 more spell hit rating, which is silly. It'd be great if the search could tell me, "well, [Cowl of Insane Precision] is the best hat you can get, but if you use [Pants of Potency], that'll give you the +hit you require, while letting you use [Cowl of the Egomancer], which has slightly less +hit in return for a great deal more +dmg}. It'd -really- get the kudos if it could figure my spec choices in - "gem more +hit, and you can take that point from Elemental Precision and put it in Arcane Mind for better results". (Yes, I'm making a lot of this up.)
To be fair, of course, this would be an insane amount of logic to incorporate for nine classes, and for the moving target that is a character's loot acquisition status.
I love lootzor's ability to pick sockets accuratly and account for socket bonuses to a point but it has some major drawbacks in this area.
First, not all of the socket bonuses are current with in game. For warlock T5, for example, the shoulders are suggested [Runed Living Ruby] for two yellow sockets becuase the socket bonus lootzor sees is +int. The bonus in game is, in fact, +damage making [Veiled Noble Topaz] better for the sockets.
Second, there is no distinction between PvP and heroic epic gems and those only craftable for deep BT/Hyjal guilds. The PvP and heroic epic gems are pretty much avalible to everyone while the T6 gems are not and it would be useful to evaluate socket bonuses based on slightly stronger versions of the standard rare quality multicolor gems without including T6 epics. I use [Belt of Divine Inspiration] which lootzor correctly values as ignoring the socket bonus with rare quiality gems. Switching to epic quality suggests +12 damage gems in both sockets. It would be nice if there was an inbetween setting that showed the socket bonus activated with [Shining Fire Opal] and [Infused Amethyst].
This is more or less how I'd value things as a resto shaman, and it yields a ranking for every slot that also matches my perceived ideal items for those slots.
This is more or less how I'd value things as a resto shaman, and it yields a ranking for every slot that also matches my perceived ideal items for those slots.
Been a while since I healed on my shaman (old main), but why do you value spirit? I know its just 1, but I always considered it as one of the most useless stats out there for shaman.
Spirit isn't great, but it certainly isn't worth zero. I mean, shamans don't have a Meditation-type talent, but it's not like they're exempt from the Five Second Rule mechanics either. Any time I haven't finished a spell in the last 5 seconds, I'm getting something out of spirit. I wouldn't actively seek it out given its budget if I could construct my ideal items, but it's definitely a nonzero value.
Amusingly, this is the only real difference the spirit stat makes in the list (besides a minor difference in teeth of gruul). I'm probably too used to my paladin to even consider dropping out of FSR
I messed around with lootzor looking for upgrades for my priest alt, and it seems to have some strange issues with gemming even besides things like stacking +hit beyond the cap:
If I put in spell damage and spell healing with the same weight (since, for healing, they're the same), it fills all the gem sockets with +9 dmg gems, where it would obviously get more 'value' from +14 healing gems.
For rogues, you're probably best off using one of the spreadsheets instead (at least one can even suggest gear now), though I guess you could adapt the AEP output from a spreadsheet to use in lootzor if you wanted.
When you're giving a value to damage it really means just damage. Not "damage and healing."
So if you make +dam and +heal each worth 2 points, it thinks the +9dam gem is worth 36 (18 for the +9dam and 18 for the +9 heal) and the +14heal gem is worth 28 (14 healing x 2). If you are a healer and really just want healing gear, set +dam to 0.
I actually think it's pretty good. I put in my perceived value of my stats and it pinged out a few blue items that are still awesome for druids even in endgame - [Capacitus' Cloak of Calibration] and [Necklace of the Deep], and adjusted the gems dependng on how I rated the stats. Now I just need to think a little more about how I actually value stats in bear form and I'll be laughing!
One thing I would say, and it's probably obvious, is that just putting reasonable numbers in those slots requires a certain amount of class awareness. Maybe with a little bit of research you could set up some "template weightings" for most of the common specs/classes. It wouldn't be perfect but it would allow the "casual" to get a bit more out of the tool.
p.s. It seems to me that it might have missed out [] Just because I was expecting it to show up, but then that might just be me being retarded.
Last edited by Farstrider : 09/10/07 at 7:41 PM.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
Not to sound like a complete idiot but one of the hardest concepts I struggle with is visualizing what values I would assign to stat and in what situations. Any idea where to start when it comest to deciding on these values?
Other then a few missing loots and fact I don't think many people will be able to use this site effectively I think it is pretty awesome.
This is more or less how I'd value things as a resto shaman, and it yields a ranking for every slot that also matches my perceived ideal items for those slots.
Hmm... do you really try to max out on 4mp5 gems like lootzor tells you to, rather than using red or purple gems?
Hmm... do you really try to max out on 4mp5 gems like lootzor tells you to, rather than using red or purple gems?
Well, let's be honest here. 4mp5 gems certainly aren't bad. Personally from a resto druid standpoint I'd rather run with +9healing +2mp5, especially as they're just blue gems, but if I turned up one day with +4mp5 gems by accident I don't honestly think I'd even notice the difference really.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
Could possibly use some minor tweaking, as the value of Mp5 really depends on many factors, but I've found the list to become rather comfortable at this point. Mp5 could potentially be valued a bit higher, depending on what kinds of heals one uses regularly. (3.6 instead of 3.2 with my current method, although one could possibly argue higher depending on which calculation method they use.)
One thing I would say, and it's probably obvious, is that just putting reasonable numbers in those slots requires a certain amount of class awareness. Maybe with a little bit of research you could set up some "template weightings" for most of the common specs/classes. It wouldn't be perfect but it would allow the "casual" to get a bit more out of the tool.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. I have a warrior that recently hit 70 and was trying to use this to find some upgrades but really didn't know where to start beyond making stamina & defence higher than the other stats. I could have visited the warrior theorycraft threads but for the quick and casual, some standard template values would be nice.
Besides that, Allakhazam.com: World of Warcraft: Item: Destruction Holo-gogs would only show up when I selected "Middle Raid" even though it only requires heroics to get. Perhaps an option to pick your proffession and filter BoP crafted items from the list? (ie, I dont care about tailoring BoP items since I am not a tailor)
Nifty little tool, just putting in some VERY rough values got me some good (and some weird) suggestions. A bit on the weird suggestions (ignoring the ones caused by rough values): I specified middle raid content and it suggested T6 for every slot it could go in. Oh, and [Icon of the Silver Crescent] seems to come from PVP, news to me.
I'll need to play around with it a litte bit more after sleeping and digging through the 'lock thread.
I used this site for a while, but bugs and lack of updates have driven me away.
Originally Posted by Praetorian
Edit: Oh, also, it seems to be missing the t6 resto chest/legs for some reason.
Oddly enough, Lootzor is missing the healing on any item that has ~117-119 +heal on it. This is dropping the item rankings down to far under your top 5. This is specifically the bug that caused me to stop using Lootzor.
Interesting exercise trying to massage it to use sockets in an interesting way. If I nudge stamina any higher than it is now, it goes to solid stars of elune everywhere (not that that's a horrible way to go).
09/10/07, 4:14 PM
