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LinkBack (555) | Thread Tools |
09/23/07, 3:43 PM
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 #1
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Piston Honda
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[Tanking] Attempting to Reach 100% Avoidance
4/23/08 Edit
I originally started this thread with the novel idea of using the best avoidence items/gems/enchants/buffs in the game to make a 100% avoidence tank. I didn't beleive initially that it could be done or even would be done if possible, and in fact I wasn't able to find a 100% avoidnece set for a warrior at the time. However, later in the thread it was shown that Druids and Rogues can theoretically reach 100% avoidence with current available gear, and in fact, a few individuals have decided to make it a reality. I'm altering my original post to act as a guide and a FAQ for those looking for more information about 100% avoidence. FAQs Is it possible to reach 100% avoidence? Yes, it is possible for many characters to reach 100% avoidence with the right gear, gems, enchants, and buffs. There are those that beleive that there is some sort of avoidence cap making it so you can never have more than xx% total avoidence, but that isn't true and has been proven to be untrue many times. If you are a moderately geared tank you can test this yourself by allowing a low level dual wielding mob to attack you while in a high avoidence set. Would a 100% avoidence tank be useful in a raid? Maybe. There are a few issues that will prevent a 100% avoidence tank from being really useful in a raid situation. One issue is that in order to reach 100% avoidence you will need end game gear, so all fights in the game should already be mostly trivial to your guild. Also, as any tank will know, incoming damage = rage = threat. A 100% avoidence tank would need to rely solely on their own miniscule dps to maintain threat on a target, which will severely gimp DPS by lowering the threat ceiling. One suggestion to overcome that obsticle is to bring less healers and more DPS - the healers aren't needed because no tank healing will be needed, and bringing more DPS will keep the raid wide DPS at good levels even though individual DPS will need to be held back. So what's the point of a 100% tank? I highly doubt it will ever be useful for a progressing guild, but it's a novel and fun idea that can be used for some accomplishments. Wouldn't you like to see a rogue successfully tank Prince? Or even Illidan? It will also open up possibilities for soloing or at least low-manning heroics or even some 25 man bosses. I don't think the possibilites for this have been fully explored, but that could be due to some of the difficulties of reaching and maintaining 100% avoidence during a fight... What are the difficulties facing a 100% avoidence tank? There are many problems for a 100% avoidence tank both in obtaining the gear, and during a fight. To obtain the gear, you need a pretty generous guild that will allow you to take end game items to use in a gimmick set, and an even more generous guild that will allow you to use 20 something Spinels for that set as well. The new badge for epic gems vendor in 2.4 should offset the latter issue, but that is still a signifigant investment of badges for a gimmick set. One thing to also keep in mind before you think you can go solo Gruul in this set is that it is currently impossible to maintain 100% avoidence self buffed. You NEED important buffs from outside sources such as Blessing Of Kings, Scorpid Sting, Insect Swarm, etc. That means soloing a raid boss is probably out of the question, but low manning is possibe. Given your dependence on these buffs, you will also need people who can consistantly keep up their totems, stings, etc, because if even one falls off for any amount of time, you can be insta-gibbed. You also will need healing, as there are very few tank-and-spank only fights out there where ALL you will be receiving is melee damage. Also, remember that melee immune is only possible if you are facing the mob. If you turn your back to the mob for any reason, there is a good chance you will get smacked. Hard. Seeing as most high avoidence gear is low on stamina it may only take one hit to do you in. Even if you keep perfect positioning yourself, mobs will still often run through you and get a hit off from behind, so even with perfect play and insta-gib is possible. Mechanics and Gear Base Stats  Parry - All classes that get Parry as a passive ability have 5% base parry Miss - All mobs have a 5% base chance to miss Racial - Night Elves get 1% increase to dodge Dodge - Warrior: .75% Paladin: .65% Rogue: -.59% Druid: -1.87% Agility - Warrior Night Elf - 101 Troll - 98 Gnome - 99 Human - 96 Undead - 94 Draenei - 93 Orc - 93 Dwarf - 92 Tauren - 91 Druid Night Elf - 75 Tauren - 65 Rogue Human - 158 Dwarf - 154 Night Elf - 163 Gnome - 161 Orc - 155 Undead - 156 Troll - 160 Blood Elf - 160 Paladin Blood Elf - 79 Human - 77 Draenei - 74 Dwarf - 73 Defense: 2.3654 defense rating = 1 defense skill = .04% Dodge, .04% Parry, and .04% to be missed (.12% total avoidence per skill)* Dodge: 18.923 dodge rating = 1% dodge Parry: 22.4 Parry Rating = 1% parry Agility: Warrior: 30 Agility = 1% dodge Paladin: 25 Agility = 1% dodge Rogue: 20 Agility = 1% dodge Druid: 14.7059 agility = 1% dodge Avoidence Talents: Warrior: Deflection (Arms) - +1% Parry per talent point (5% maxed) Anticipation (Protection) - +4 Defense skill per point (20 maxed) Paladin: Deflection (Retribution) - +1% Parry per talent point (5% maxed) Anticipation (Protection) - +4 Defense skill per point (20 maxed) Druid: Feral Swiftness (Feral Combat) - +2% Dodge per point (4% maxed) Survival of the Fittest (Feral Combat) - +1% Agility per point (3% maxed) Rogue: Lightning Reflexes (Combat) - +1% Dodge per point (5% maxed) Deflection (Combat) - +1% Parry per point (5% maxed) Vitality (Combat) - +1% Agility per point (2% maxed) Ghostly Strike (Sublety) - Strike that awards 15% to dodge for 7 seconds (20 sec cooldwon) Cheat Death (Sublety) - 33% chance to avoid a blow that would otherwise kill you per point (100% max, 1 min internal cooldown) Sinister Calling (Sublety) - +3% Agility per point (15% total) For those looking for the best avoidence items available to them, using a site like lootzor.com - World of Warcraft search and rate items - profile your wow character is very useful. Below are the ratings to use for each stat. I'm assuming certain talents or buffs are available, but I'm including the formula I use to reach these stats so you can take stuff out should it be unavailable to you: Warrior Defense: 1000 / (25 / 3 * 2.3654) = 50.7313 Parry: 1000 / 22.4 = 44.6428 Dodge: 1000 / 18.923 = 52.8457 Agility: 1000 / 30 * 1.1 (kings) = 36.6667 Paladin Defense: 1000 / (25 / 3 * 2.3654) = 50.7313 Parry: 1000 / 22.4 = 44.6428 Dodge: 1000 / 18.923 = 52.8457 Agility: 1000 / 25 * 1.1 (kings) = 44 Druid Defense: 1000 / (25 / 2 * 2.3654) = 33.8209 Dodge: 1000 / 18.923 = 52.8457 Agility: 1000 / 14.7059 * 1.1 * 1.03 (kings+SotF) = 77.0439 Rogue Defense: 1000 / (25 / 3 * 2.3654) = 50.7313 Parry: 1000 / 22.4 = 44.6428 Dodge: 1000 / 18.923 = 52.8457 Agility: 1000 / 20 * 1.1 * 1.15 (kings+Sinister Calling) = 63.25 This section will list the best-in-slot avoidence gear, gems, and enchants currently available (patch 2.4.2). Note that with some classes you will end up with more than 100% avoidence using this gear, so that will give you room to drop buffs (if they're not available) or swap out equipment for what is available or has more dps, etc. Warrior Head - [Crown of Dath'Remar] (Kil'jaeden) enchanted with Head - [Crown of Dath'Remar] (Kil'jaeden) enchanted with Head - [Quad Deathblow X44 Goggles] (Engineering BOP) enchanted with Head - [Grimgrin Faceguard] (Zul'jin) enchanted with Scorpid Sting - Hunter ability increases mob's chance to miss by 5% Insect Swarm - Druid Balance talent increases mob's chance to miss by 2% Blessing of Kings - Paladin Protection talent increases your stats by 10% Grace of Air Totem - Shaman ability increases Agility by 77 (88 with talents) Mark of the Wild- Druid ability increases stats by 14 (19 with talents)0 [Elixir of Major Agility] [Scroll of Agility V] [Warp Burger] [Embrace of the Dawn] used by a party member [Moonglade Cowl] - two piece bonus worn by a druid Last edited by SeanDamnit : 09/03/08 at 3:18 PM. |
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09/23/07, 3:50 PM
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#2 |
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Von Kaiser
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zzz, arent there enough threads about avoidance topics?
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09/23/07, 3:57 PM
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#3 | |
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Piston Honda
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09/23/07, 4:19 PM
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#4 |
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This space intentionally left blank
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Heh, fun project. I entered the relevant weightings into Lootzor and came up with slightly different results. Lootzor isn't perfect - doesn't know of the 12 def gem or the gloves for instance - but for a lot of slots it shows you can make more optimal choices.
Lootzor list Weightings were chosen as... Agi: 1000 / 30 * 1.1 Def: 1000 / ( 25 / 3 * 2.37 ) Dodge: 1000 / 18.923 Parry: 1000 / 22.4 ... which should reflect their respective value for avoidance if wowwiki and my fevered mind are both working correctly. I'm afraid I can't quite be arsed to recalculate the final avoidance values with the completely avoidance optimised setup, but at a glance I think it's enough to make immunity acchievable. |
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09/23/07, 4:20 PM
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#5 | |
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...
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OP: maybe you could consider doing +20 agi on the weapon (2.2 enchant obviously) for a static dodge bonus instead of mongoose? |
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09/23/07, 4:33 PM
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#6 |
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WTB Blood Fury back
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Rogue's first thought: Now try and hold aggro.
I guess at least you don't have to ever worry about keeping Shield Block up  |
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09/23/07, 4:37 PM
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#7 |
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Blood Angle
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I'm not sure if it's possible for warriors though you can get close. But back when patch 2.1 came out i tried making one for warriors druids and rogues, and i reached 90% 95% and 110% avoidance with the gear present at that time. I don't have the spare time to remake that list, but I'm sure someone here does
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09/23/07, 7:07 PM
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#8 |
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Don Flamenco
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You can't use Elixir of Mastery and Elixir of Agility at the same time as they both count as Battle Elixirs.
You can, however, enchant both rings with +4 stats each. Also, there are fights where threat is not a factor while tanking. Imagine RoS Phase1 with an unhittable tank or an offtank at Illidari Council that needs little to no heal. So this is not just theorycraft, it does has its applications. Edit: Scroll of Agility V will stack with all other buffs and it's 20 agility extra. Last edited by Malazaar : 09/23/07 at 7:14 PM. |
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09/23/07, 7:24 PM
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#9 |
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Don Flamenco
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If you are really going for the 100% avoidance build, you should use The Sun Eater - Items - World of Warcraft with +20agi on it. Better yet, you should keep The Brutalizer MH and put The Sun Eater into your OH instead of a shield.
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09/23/07, 7:28 PM
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#10 | |
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Shave and a hair cut
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09/23/07, 7:28 PM
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#11 | ||
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Piston Honda
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There are a few cases where lootzor is inaccurate however, like the missing gloves. And it doesn't know that with my gem setup I can't use the 12 def meta gem. I'm gonna mess around with this and repost the final info.
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09/23/07, 7:33 PM
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#12 | |
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Don Flamenco
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09/23/07, 7:35 PM
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#13 | |
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Don Flamenco
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I actually found a better weapon, keep The Sun Eater in MH and use Blade of the Unrequited - Items - World of Warcraft with 3x 10 dodge gems OH. Barrel-Blade Longrifle - Items - World of Warcraft with 2x 10 dodge would also be better than the rifle. |
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09/23/07, 7:49 PM
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#14 | |
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Piston Honda
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I know that while that sounds good, it is impractical for tanking because of threat concerns. But I find it interesting to think that 100% physical damage immunity (frontal, of course) is possible. As the title says, this is just for fun. |
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09/23/07, 7:52 PM
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#15 |
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Don Flamenco
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If you are Dual-Wielding, you won't be able to block - thus you will be crushed.
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09/23/07, 8:09 PM
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#16 |
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Piston Honda
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I updated the initial post with a few different items discovered using lootzor, I took out Elixir of Mastery as it wouldn't stack with the Elixir of Major Agility (it still gives more avoidance than the flask), I added in the Scroll of Agility V, and I discovered that I DID include the enchant "Enchant Weapon - Greater Agility" in my inital post, but forgot or something. Stats from the enchants stay the same.
I am now at 3.64% chance to be hit (blocked hit, of course). DW isn't the best option as the shield listed offers better avoidance than any weapon, even if that weapon has another +20 agi enchant on it. Also, as Malazaar mentioned above, without a shield you turn 3.64% chance to block into 3.64% chance to be crushed. Note that if I put mongoose on the main hand instead of the 20 agility, 100% immunity will be reached every time mongoose procs. |
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09/23/07, 8:14 PM
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#17 |
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Don Flamenco
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Yea, I didn't think of that shield.
One last thing I can come up with is Elementium Band of the Sentry - Items - World of Warcraft instead of Eternal Defender. By the way, are the avoidance numbers you posted against level 70 or 73? |
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09/23/07, 8:16 PM
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#18 |
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Glass Joe
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Forgive me if I missed this but are these statistics for a level 73? The avoidance shown on your profile is higher than the avoidance you have against bosses. Did you include that into the calculation? Forgive me if you did, I just didn't notice it.
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09/23/07, 9:03 PM
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#20 |
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Piston Honda
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All calculations assume a level 73 mob. Level will effect how much defense effects your avoidance, so you will have more avoidance in this setup against a level 70 than a 73.
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09/24/07, 2:13 AM
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#21 | |
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Bald Bull
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09/24/07, 3:33 AM
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#22 | |
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Great Tiger
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09/24/07, 7:18 AM
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#23 |
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Glass Joe
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Fun concept. The principle of the glass canon applied to tanking.
Now, if there was some way to do this while dual wielding, it would be an interesting way for a Fury warrior to offtank 3 or 4 adds needing little to no heals. |
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09/24/07, 7:39 AM
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#24 |
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wants scorpions that hovar without flapping
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As someone mentioned theres definate application for it for a couple of fights. Not like you need it but Al'ar phase 1 would be another example where a 100% avoidance tank could keep aggro indefinately without being hit. Pretty pointless but fun!
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