Yeah, avoidance is not capped as has been proved over and over. Can we please not have that dredged up again?
As for hunters. They can't possibly make enough threat meleeing to tank anything. So forget it. Yes, they can have enough dodge, but since they can't use a ranged weapon and are pretty awful at melee dps, I don't see it working, unless there is something about hunter melee dps I am unaware of, which I suppose is possible.
I remember that pre-bc there was a Nefarian kill movie with a hunter as tank, however he was using Thunderfury which boosted threat enormously back then.
This may be old news, but I just read in the 2.4 patchnotes that BT/Hyjal quality gems will be available for 15 heroic badges each. While it would be quite a pain to gather that many badges, at least it is probably easier than convincing your guild to give you 20 spinnels for a gimmick set.
Card carrying member of the Inapropriately in Love with Hilary Duff Society.
"Yeah, well, if we could all get what we want I would be eating dinner out of Hilary Duff's skull right now" - Salabesh
Where is the evidence for warriors having an avoidance cap? Full parses, etc?
Everything I've seen shows them having no cap.
I can say with absolute certainty that there is no avoidance cap. Throughout the multiple infinite stat bugs on the PTR it has been proven that you can reach 100% avoidance.
I've experienced the bug on both a rogue and warrior, the rogue gaining the vast majority of its avoidance from dodge alone (more than 75%).
Well, we're currently in BT, cleared Hyjal, very soon on Illidan, I'd really love that patch to come out before we cross Illidan first time, that would let me tank him with a 100% avoidance set ^^
Warriors CAN reach 100% immunity in 2.4 (I'm pretty sure). Whether or not they are as viable as Druids or Rogues due to threat concerns is a whole nother issue. Actually, whether or not Rogue/Druid threat is viable is still an issue.
I honestly don't view this project as useful in the vast majority of encounters out there. This may be interesting for soloing or low-manning some stuff, but I really doubt that any tank will use this set on anything but a farmed encounter for any reason other than to just see if it can be done (like a druid tanking Illidan.)
Card carrying member of the Inapropriately in Love with Hilary Duff Society.
"Yeah, well, if we could all get what we want I would be eating dinner out of Hilary Duff's skull right now" - Salabesh
Yes, the utility of this is certainly limited. I think the primary purpose of this is for amusement value - I think we'd all find a video of a rogue tanking Teron fairly amusing. I also think that if someone pulls it off - and in particular if someone pulls it off and finds it useful - it will shortly thereafter get nerfed somehow.
The fundamental issue is that this is really only useful on purely sustained fights with no movement or tank rotations; and on these fights, to the extent that they exist all, there tends to be a DPS check component - and thus a Threat check component - which would limit the effectiveness of this approach. Although I suppose doing a fight like Patchwerk without basically no healers in the raid would mean that you could bring a lot more DPS such that even if threat caused each individual person to generate less DPS, the fact that you could have 50% more DPSers might make up for that.
Anyway, I'm not going to get too worried about all the possible applications until someone actually pulls it off.
Well, we're currently in BT, cleared Hyjal, very soon on Illidan, I'd really love that patch to come out before we cross Illidan first time, that would let me tank him with a 100% avoidance set ^^
Why before the patch? What change there would hurt/help your ability to reach melee immunity? Also, keep in mind he doesn't get the dual wielding penalty so you'd have to have a very complete set of gear + debuffs. How's your collection looking?
Aside from minor tweaks (my belt is 3 less agility than deep shadow, my neck has +8 agility gems), I'm largely only missing gloves/legs/chest pieces myself.
Edit: Pages and pages late about possibly tanking Veras Darkshadow.
However, if a druid with 100% avoidance is tanking Veras Darkshadow, you would have this avoidance in caster as well as bear form, correct? Thus, it would be possible to moonfire spam to hold agro while Veras is BoP'd?
Just tanked Hydross because we had 0 resistance gear tanks in our twink run so it is actually already useful.
With all the buffs and debuffs I'm at 101.3% avoid now (ofc not at Hydross nature immune).
Edit: Pages and pages late about possibly tanking Veras Darkshadow.
However, if a druid with 100% avoidance is tanking Veras Darkshadow, you would have this avoidance in caster as well as bear form, correct? Thus, it would be possible to moonfire spam to hold agro while Veras is BoP'd?
well i can only see one talent in the feral tree that actualy helps avoidence and it only helps out with 4% dodge. if we are able to break 100% anyways then we could be able to tank as balence spec. this would have less +spell damage but it might be able to hold aggro anyways.
If anyone would be interested I got bored last night and made a spreadsheet comparing the avoidance of different gear for rogues. I’m just not sure where the best place to upload it would be.
I would also like to point out that using a meta in your helm actually lowers your avoidance since you will have to use yellow and blue gems to activate it.
Veras has cold blood, so if I recall correctly, he can crit you regardless of your defense/resilience score.
Ah good, I'm not losing my mind then. As for tanking in caster form with spells - you'd only lose the 4% dodge. On a non-dual wielding boss you probably can't get away with that, but for veras, it would certainly be possible due to his dual wield penalty. That said, it would only be useful if he's melee immune as you won't do much threat with 0 spell damage.
I've been wondering if it would be better to tank in catform when you're at 100% avoidance. You do have a threat penalty, but you're going to have a very high amount of agility which would actually make it a decent dps set. Would eliminate the problem of not having rage also. I suppose it would come down to not having much hp and the chances that you may take magic damage/an unlucky hit. Especially with a boss like Veras Darkshadow, when picking him up he's likely to move behind you and ignore your dodge for a hit.
If anyone would be interested I got bored last night and made a spreadsheet comparing the avoidance of different gear for rogues. I’m just not sure where the best place to upload it would be.
I would also like to point out that using a meta in your helm actually lowers your avoidance since you will have to use yellow and blue gems to activate it.
savefile.com is probably a good spot to upload sheets to share them if you dont have your own webspaceat hand.
Almoust uncrushable with shield + all avaible buff/debuffs.
Warcrafter supports gear/gem/enchant/raid buffs.
Edit: I maxed avoidance and result were up here. I didnt try reach uncrushable.
Edit2: It would be fun to see rogues/druid gear in same format too.
Edit3: Some shaman tanked karazhan with pvp gear. LINK
I've 'optimised' the above sheet for passive uncrushability on shamans, and I actually got there with Sunwell items + scorpid sting, if you assume a few things like the not yet available [Sword Breaker's Bulwark] or the +15 defense enchant on chest, you could reach 102.4% and you would not even be limited by Scorpid/Insect. Here it is.
Here is an Excel sheet comparing different rogue avoidance gear. You can change the value to different stats at the top of the sheet. Also the gems are preset to a value of 10, you can change that to 8 if you plan on using rare gems.
I have given 0 avoidance value for Metas since they require 2 yellow gems and 2 blue gems to activate. Though I have highlighted the socket bonus that give avoidance incase you would like to use a Meta.
Also if there are any items that should be added to the list, or if I have made any mistakes please let me know.
03/09/08, 9:16 AM
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