So, basically: you might be able to get a little bit of extra time with a perfectly timed taunt + trinket right at enrage, which will end at the first stomp, and either end of be significantly weakened at the first meteor slash. On the whole, this sounds like a pretty risky approach, and you'd probably be better served just doing more DPS for the entire fight.
Brutallus post-enrage will still 1-round a tank with sheild wall and Moroes both up. Save the avoidance tricks and such for surviving pre-enrage. When it's obvious that you're going to be going post-enrage, have a paladin run off to the limit of Righteous Defense. The second he enrages, the paladin taunts, then bubbles. Repeat the process with another paladin at the other edge. The rest of the raid follows behind Brut to avoid the enraged Meteor Slashes. There are WWS's of guilds doing ~50sec past enrage using this and other kiting methods.
There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake
I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai
Brutallus post-enrage will still 1-round a tank with sheild wall and Moroes both up. Save the avoidance tricks and such for surviving pre-enrage. When it's obvious that you're going to be going post-enrage, have a paladin run off to the limit of Righteous Defense. The second he enrages, the paladin taunts, then bubbles. Repeat the process with another paladin at the other edge. The rest of the raid follows behind Brut to avoid the enraged Meteor Slashes. There are WWS's of guilds doing ~50sec past enrage using this and other kiting methods.
I wonder if you could control brutallus indefinitely via vollied paladin taunts taking him in a wide circle. I suppose the occasional resist would be an issue, since with a strategy like that you'd be taunting once every few seconds. Will he still slash with no one in melee range?
Brutallus post-enrage will still 1-round a tank with sheild wall and Moroes both up. Save the avoidance tricks and such for surviving pre-enrage. When it's obvious that you're going to be going post-enrage, have a paladin run off to the limit of Righteous Defense. The second he enrages, the paladin taunts, then bubbles. Repeat the process with another paladin at the other edge. The rest of the raid follows behind Brut to avoid the enraged Meteor Slashes. There are WWS's of guilds doing ~50sec past enrage using this and other kiting methods.
The point is to not get hit, Penguin Also, this would be bringing in a feral as a DPS rather than a tank (which incurs its own DPS hit)-- which is still plenty viable. Also, with the dodge set, the feral can take a few stomps through the fight as well.
The paladin strat sounds terrific, however, and doesn't require me getting tons of spinels...
I wonder if you could control brutallus indefinitely via vollied paladin taunts taking him in a wide circle. I suppose the occasional resist would be an issue, since with a strategy like that you'd be taunting once every few seconds. Will he still slash with no one in melee range?
Slash has an infinite range, you would die pretty fast.
Hi guys, first time poster here. I've been working on my rogue avoidance set for the past 2 months, and I've just completed my first successful test. I MTed mother shahraz holding 900-1000 TPS and not taking a single hit.
Wow Web Stats
My group was 2 shaman (imp GoA and windfury), fury warrior, feral druid. Shahraz doesn't land a single melee.
Other comments:
I chose to start with Shahraz because all our DPS would be in shadow resist gear and I'd have a better chance at holding aggro. My threat was better than I expected, largely due to my group and raid makeup.
There's more than enough avoidance gear to reach the cap, but I carefully planned mine for as much Expertise rating as I could fit. I figure that since I'm facing the target it would be the single greatest TPS/DPS stats I could find. I wish I could have fit more expertise from my bank, but my server has a long way to go for the gem vendor and 5 crimson spinels was all I could manage for now.
My guild does not have Illidan down yet (10% a month ago but then two of our MTs were hit by a tornado and so we've been gearing up two new tanks for the past month) but I was able to tank phase 1 successfully. No issues other than that our DPS had to hold back a little bit. No big deal since our healers had it easy, they could spend all day in that phase.
I used PowerAuras addon for all those things in the middle of my screen. Basically they keep track of all the necessary buffs and debuffs and they turn red if one expires. Just a little helper for me. I almost die (lol not really, I'd have cheated death) early in the fight when a fatal attraction port lands near me but I had cloak of shadows for it.
Hi guys, first time poster here. I've been working on my rogue avoidance set for the past 2 months, and I've just completed my first successful test. I MTed mother shahraz holding 900-1000 TPS and not taking a single hit.
This is freakin awesome.
How close were you over 100%? Think this is doable without the 50 def alchemy trinket?
Last edited by Optikalusion : 05/02/08 at 10:54 AM.
I have the gear to be around ~3% over the cap, but I scaled back to just above 102.4% to fit as much Expertise and other stats as I possibly could. For the gear in my bags, the alchemy trinket was necessary to fit the expertise. I have some extra things like Moroes, Aqir Artifact, and a green elude ring 21 agi 21 dodge in my bank.
More crimson spinels would have been enough if I had them available.
How did the overall attempt go? Were there any threat issues? Why didn't you bring ranged DPS only so you didn't have to worry about a Hateful soaker?
I just use /trade lfm [instance] and /lookingforgroup lfm [instance] so i usually get a mixed group with few healers and 90% of the group in really bad gear. I dont really care at gruul ... either some offtank gets 2nd aggro and survives the hits or all melees just die in the first few minutes. There is no enrage timer on Gruul so you can do it with just your debuff team surviving.
Aggro is between 700 and 1200 tps depending on group setup and bossfight so thats enough for most dds.
SSC / Gruul / Magtheridon are kind of easy with an avoidance tank
but Al'ar is kind of a Problem in TK.
Tanked him phase 1 and others would just dps the spawns but i still didnt have aggro at phase2.
Is there some kind of aggro reduce / reset at phase 2 start ?
Btw if you want to make some gold because you respecc to tank all the time go and kill Doomwalker as often as you can with just your 5 man buff & debuff group and sell the items for split profit. Its 100g-500g for everyone and kind of easy...
aggro reset for everyone isnt that bad you just continue tanking and make sure no one overnukes as the aggro is reset (hydross, leotheras in example)
aggro reset for tank only isnt a problem because its some kind of physical attack which reduces the aggro (ie onyxia) or incapacitates the tank(ie bloodboil) but you just avoid it along with all the other attacks.
Real killer for rogue tanks is unavoidable ae Stun (like Kazrogal well at least as long as you arent a tauren rogue because of transporter malfunction...)
I have the gear to be around ~3% over the cap, but I scaled back to just above 102.4% to fit as much Expertise and other stats as I possibly could. For the gear in my bags, the alchemy trinket was necessary to fit the expertise. I have some extra things like Moroes, Aqir Artifact, and a green elude ring 21 agi 21 dodge in my bank.
More crimson spinels would have been enough if I had them available.
Vandar does one of them unavoidable stuns, so even though he is a dualwielder, he crushes me like a fly.
But perhaps drek is working in some other way?
Pretty sure Drek has a knockdown/stun that isn't trinketable that gets you rocked
I know I tried tanking him on my rogue and i was fine till I got knocked down and knocked out
Btw if you want to make some gold because you respecc to tank all the time go and kill Doomwalker as often as you can with just your 5 man buff & debuff group and sell the items for split profit. Its 100g-500g for everyone and kind of easy...
How do you manage Overruns (deaggroes and charges another member... your buff and debuff group)?
You can't be alone because of lightning, and he will Overrun somebody else at least once every minute...
The second step is to take these items and create a chardev.org template and check the result.
*edit*
After checking chardev including talents and possible buffs it became clear, that agility is much more valueable as I thought. Its even better than dodge rating.
Thats the chardev template I got with agility scoring ~540. (link)
Aswell i would suggest you go back and read the posts in the 230-250 range where a lot of rogue discussion happened.
While going back i found the warcrafter.net sandbox i generated back then and updated it with the gear your ratings generated after correcting the value for agility. >clicky<
Wow thats real nice Work you Guys have done! May be our Rogues are now getting some extra Work to do in the Raids ;-)
I have just tiped some Values down for my own.. May be you can take a look into these Calculations?
I Dont really know how the Game is working with % Buffs on my Agi
Avoidance for Rogues
Boss Debuffs (miss)
standard % 5
Insectswarm 2
Hunters 5
Roguestats
Agi unbuffed without talents 900
Deff (Deffrating / 2,3654 downrounded) 0
Dodgerating 150
Sinster Calling (in % 0,15) 0,15
Lightningreflexes (in %) 5
Defensetalent (in %) 5
Vitalitytalent (in %0,02) 0,02
Raidbuffs
GoA - Agi Totem 77
Druidbuff 14
Potion of major Agi 35
Agi Bufffood 20
Kings (in % 1,1) 1,1
Calculations
Total Agi 1318,9
((Agi basis*(1+Sinister Calling+Vitality))+Raidbuffs without Kings)*Kings
Parry/Miss/Dodge from Deff 0
Deff * 0,04
Dodge from Dodgerating 7,926861491
Dodgerating / 18,923
Dodgetotal 78,87186149
(Total Agi /20)+Dodge from Dodgerating + Dodge from Deff+Lightningreflexes
Parrytotal 10
5 Basisparry + Parry from Deff + Defensetalent
Misstotal 12
standard % + Insecswarm + Hunters skorpidstring
Crit from agi 32,9725
Total agi * 0,025
Avoidancetotal 100,8718615
Dodgetotal+Parrytotal+Misstotal
It's been mentioned in the thread before, and a simple search of WWS would show that bosses like Illidian and mother shaz do not have a -19% hit penalty from dual wielding.
It would be nice, but no, and it's been answered before.
How do you manage Overruns (deaggroes and charges another member... your buff and debuff group)?
You can't be alone because of lightning, and he will Overrun somebody else at least once every minute...
Can't figure this out.
It's a complete aggro reset on everyone. There are several positions where he will not knock you away because either you stand below some object and he knocks you against it all the time (like lurker below the wooden platform) or because he simply bugs and doesnt do anything but reset aggro on overrun.
It's allways a good idea to put a searing totem next to doomwalker because totem aggro isnt reset so he will hit totem first after aggro reset which gives you time for those 1-2 extra hits you need.
And make everyone just keep the debuffs up and not heal/damage whenever overrun is ready. Will take about 20 minutes but it is safe and worth it.
BTW: I was bored and stole skari's sheet and altered it a bit for my character. It seems with a hunter, shaman, druid, and kings it is now possible for a orc rogue such as myself to break 104.6 avoidance. I hosted it here: casualrogueavoid1.xls (tell me if that doesn't work or something). Everything can either be bought on the AH, farmed through pvp or instances, or obtained through professions. I only used alchemy and didn't go the extra mile of enchanting.
All the gear has it's enchanted stats on it already and uses 10 agi gems since my server will get the Gem vendor by Sunday this won't be a problem =D.
Does anyone have any tips to increase TPS on this set without going inside a 25-man or losing too much avoidance?
EDIT: I used what was available to my character. Basically, I got rid of the Monk chest piece already =*(.
05/01/08, 9:19 AM
Also, this would be bringing in a feral as a DPS rather than a tank (which incurs its own DPS hit)-- which is still plenty viable. Also, with the dodge set, the feral can take a few stomps through the fight as well.
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