Hmmm. Actually, given that we're over the mark there, it looks like it might be possible to achieve 100% physical immunity for a rogue even without BoK. Does that mean our hypothetical rogue really could solo Gruul? Bonus points, can it be a gnome?

Cave-in damage would eventually one-shot you at higher growth numbers :P

I think a rogue being able to reach 100% physical immunity might be the end of the enchanting market, though... Between CloS and bandaging and potting at opportune times i think they would have little trouble soloing most bosses, possibly even in heroics.

Hmm, how many growths would it take? If we can work that out, it tells us how much DPS you need, which tells us how many rogues you need. Let's say as a ballpark figure that a rogue with the 100% avoidance setup has around 800 DPS and 9k health. Both are probably very low estimates. Let's assume they're also able to take at most one tick from any Cave-in, and can pot/bandage afterwards to get back to full.

Edit: Cave-in is 2700/tick before armor. 15% increase per grow. Let's say our rogues have about 25% reduction from armor. That means a pre-mitigation tick of 12k is enough to one-shot our rogue. So after 23 grows he's going to start one-shotting the rogues through cave-in, and probably take out quite a lot at once since they'll all be grouped up hitting him. 46 minutes, which means you need a raid-wide DPS of about 1250 DPS or so.

Conclusion: soloing Gruul is not quite possible. Main problem is that the 100% avoidance spec will nerf damage to below required levels, and you won't have full raid buffs on you / debuffs on the mob. Though a rogue with the twin blades, starting out with all the 1hr buffs and 30 min pally buffs, would have a reasonable shot at it. Two rogues have a much better chance of being able to do it, and three rogues have an even better shot.

Realistically, you're not going to be able to pot/bandage often enough to heal the cave-in damage, so you'll need a healer. 2-3 rogues and a pally should have a fighting chance.

scorpid sting and insect swarm

For your rogues on gruul, you'd probably want to bring a single druid along with insect swarm & the moonglade 2 piece, since you'd need a healer of some sort, and the +35 dodge rating together with the debuff from insect swarm would help matters (and possibly free up some buffs to use a flask of relentless assault, or whatever).

As a rogue, I've just come up with 82.42% avoidance unbuffed against a boss mob.
With full raid buffs I'm seeing 108.6% avoidance possible.

At least that is what lootzor showed me, there may be some other choices.


---------
Rogue 100% Avoidance Test

Values needed for 1% avoidance:
Agility: 20/1.15 (Sinister Calling)
Dodge: 12*82/52
Parry: 20*82/52 (no parry items used though)
Defense: 1.5*82/52/0.12 (1 point of defense is worth 0.12% avoidance through miss, dodge and parry)

Base stats:
+5% Parry
+5% Dodge
+1% Dodge (Night Elf)
+15% Agility
163 Agility as a naked level 70 Night Elf. 3.7825% additional dodge through base agility [((163*1.15)-111.8)/20]

So we're looking at
5% Parry + 5% Parry + 5% Dodge + 5% Dodge + 3.7825% Dodge + 5% Miss
- 0.6% Miss - 0.6% Dodge - 0.6% Parry (because of the boss mob)

[top] 26.9825% Avoidance

Total stats through equipment:
598 Agi
220 Dodge
186 Defense

Avoidance through equipment:
598/(20/1,15)

34.385% Dodge
220/(12*82/52)= 11.621% Dodge
186/((1.5*82/52)/0.12)= 9.43% Avoidance

= 82.42% Avoidance

+ Scroll of Agility [20 Agi]
+ Elixir of Major Agility [35 Agi]
+ Warp Burger [20 Agi]
+ Blessing of Kings [+15% Agi] (assuming that Sinister Calling and Blessing of Kings stack multiplicative)

= 93.95% Avoidance

+ Survival of the Fittest [+3% Agi] (multiplicative?)
+ Grace of Air Totem [88 Agi]

= 101.6% Avoidance

+ Insect Swarm [2% Miss]
+ Scorpid Sting [5% Miss]

= 108.6% Avoidance

So theoretically possible.

Equipment list:

Head: [Deathblow X11 Goggles] [68 Agi] + [17 Dodge, 16 Def]
Neck: [The Darkener's Grasp] [23 Dodge, 27 Def]
Shoulder: [Deathmantle Shoulderpads] [50 Agi] + [15 Dodge, 10 Def]
Back: [Phoenix-Wing Cloak] [27 Dodge, 22 Def] + [12 Agi]
Chest: [Auchenai Monk's Tunic] [48 Agi, 30 Dodge] + [6 Agi]
Wrist: [Insidious Bands] [30 Agi, 8 Def] + [12 Def]
Hands: [Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation] [51 Agi] + [15 Agi]
Waist: [Belt of Deep Shadow] [48 Agi]
Legs: [Skulker's Greaves] [56 Agi] + [12 Agi]
Feet: [Nimble-foot Treads] [32 Agi, 25 Dodge] + [12 Agi]
Finger: 2x [Delicate Eternium Ring] [25 Agi, 16 Dodge] + [4 Agi]
Trinket: [Shadowmoon Insignia] [32 Dodge, 36 Def]
+[Scarab of Displacement] [42 Def]
Mainhand: [Blade of Infamy] [28 Agi] + [20 Agi]
Offhand: [The Sun Eater] [19 Dodge, 13 Def] + [20 Agi]
Randged: [Barrel-Blade Longrifle] [32 Agi]

Is it just me or does anyone else, after reading this thread want to see gruul being 5 maned or killed by 25 hunters. at least with a raid full of dps and 1 hunter with 100% avoidance you wouldn't need to worry about things breaking or buffs running out mid fight. actually i guess it couldn't be 25 hunters you'd need at least 1 shaman in raid and probably a druid for insect swarm.

If someone in your group wears [Embrace of the Dawn] that's 10 more agility.

Kings and other percentage buffs stack multiplicitively, not additively. This will bump the druid, and especially rogue numbers even higher.

This adds 3 AGI to a druid, which combined with the 35 dodge rating from rejuv (most people seem to omit this for some reason) means the druid numbers are very close to 100% avoidance as well.

Good job guys.

Edit: Embrace of the Dawn.... awesome catch. That puts the hypothetical druid numbers from the first page at over 100% avoidance.

... for half an hour. That's not quite long enough to take him down solo. If you're looking at the minimal number of people required to kill Gruul, you pretty much have to leave out food buffs for the same reason.

It looks to me as though the minimum is something like 2 rogues and 1 druid, plus a bunch of 1hr pally buffs given out before starting. 1 rogue + druid might just manage it depending on whether the rogue has the DPS to take him down before the cave-ins one-shot him.

Actually... what you want is a rogue plus moonkin. Moonkin armor stops the druid getting killed by cave-ins, also gives some nice buffs like imp. faerie fire. They can still heal well enough to take care of the cave-in damage on the pair of them, and DPS the boss also.

So yeah - 100% avoidance rogue plus a moonkin. Get to it, guys!

Note that ring is unique-equipped. You'll want to find another candidate for the 2nd ring slot

Because Sinister Calling increases your total agility by 15% and Survival of the Fittest increases all stats by 3%.
Therefore, *if* they're all multiplicative, you're having a 1.15*1.15*1.03= 136.2175% increase in your agility.

Uh ok, would need another ring then. Wouldn't change much though.

Survival of the Fittest is a Druid Feral talent however, so it would have no effect on your Rogue's avoidance?

Charsi is correct, it shouldn't be in there.

Survival of the Fittest is a selfbuffing talent druids have. I don't see how this affects rogues.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch line

Yeah, it's possible to get higher than I did. I just ditched some avoidance for DPS to help with aggro.

As a note: Auchenai Monk's Tunic is mis-listed in Lootzor; the set bonus is 6 AP, not 6 dodge.

How do you solo if you take shaman, paladin, hunter and Druid effects into account?

Slightly off topic, but the same way you could solo the Rhok'Delar quest at level 60. Have the buffs/totems/auras/debuf sorted before the fight or just very quickly at the start of it, and then have everyone /afk during the actual combat.

The problem with both Leo and Prince is that they tend to move around a certain amount, and there's a certain amount of risk involved with doing so, as if they catch you from behind, all your avoidance is for naught.

Now, Illidan, on the other hand... he does move a bit, but in a very slow and controlled fashion... it's within the realm of possibility. You couldn't solo him, to be sure, but I do think it'd be pretty funny to put out an Illidan video with him being tanked by a rogue.

Ah boy, was reading it in the other posting and didn't think about that it's a self buff.

Do they have the same ~24% miss chance players do? If so, soloing prince (or at least doing prince with just dps classes) could be very feasible without maxed gear

Eh...running out of Shadow Nova every time seems iffy.