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Old 09/25/07, 4:38 PM   #76
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
Do they have the same ~24% miss chance players do? If so, soloing prince (or at least doing prince with just dps classes) could be very feasible without maxed gear
Prince does do some magical damage. Shadow Nova and the Shadow Word: Pain would kill anyone who never got heals. Although a list of fights where the physical damage is the biggest threat would be interesting- a 100% avoidance tank on Morogrim, for example, would make that fight very easy as the healers would only have to worry about Tidal Wave and Earthquake on the MT.

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Old 09/25/07, 4:45 PM   #77
Enova
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
Do they have the same ~24% miss chance players do? If so, soloing prince (or at least doing prince with just dps classes) could be very feasible without maxed gear
I have not really given this matter any serious thought, so i never really investigated it. However, logic dictates that they would be subjected to the same mechanics as players.

Closest example is Attumen while disarmed, when his efficiency is greatly reduced. Now, this is a design script, of course, and totally irrelevant on the topic of dual wielding. BUT it clearly shows an intention to subject raid bosses to the same mechanics.

This should however easily be verified by a WWS where the hunters refrain from using Scorpid Sting on a benchmark dual wielding boss.

EDIT: i'll try to upload some WWS with and without a sting soon as i remember to record one

Last edited by Enova : 09/25/07 at 4:55 PM.

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^

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Old 09/25/07, 5:16 PM   #78
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Prince does do some magical damage.
Yeah sorry I'm dumb, it's been quite a while since I've done prince

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

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Old 09/25/07, 5:33 PM   #79
Enova
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
Yeah sorry I'm dumb, it's been quite a while since I've done prince
Nothing an overgeared shadowpriest wouldn't cover, i'm sure... Still, it would completely defy the point of soloing the encounter...

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^

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Old 09/26/07, 4:21 AM   #80
zork
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Warrior
 
Eredar (EU)
I am trying to get a avoidance-calculator ready for some time now and I think I found a way to do it.
I wanted to get all the item-data dynamically from the Blizzard armory so I did a bit of research and wrote some PHP that gets some of the beautiful XML for me.

Now whats kinda funny, I now know why there is a "." behind block value of XX. It seems to be handled differently since its handled as sort of spell-data. Defense and dodge for example are normal bonuses.

If you want to take a look at the first results check:
TDMOG Armory - Get ItemID by Name

You can click on one Item and get its data.
What I want to do is to write a page where you can enter some itemids (one for every slot) and it will sum up all the values for you and give you your final avoidance value.


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Old 09/26/07, 4:41 AM   #81
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
Prince only Dual wield in phase 2 and then he hot bigger miss change.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 09/26/07, 9:27 AM   #82
Zurgat
King Hippo
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Aszune (EU)
Isn't avoidance capped at 75% nowadays?
Meaning, if you have a theoretical 30% block, 30% parry, 30% dodge: Then they are only 25% in effect each ?

So, 25% parry, 25% block, 25% dodge. And if you raised your block by 2%, then parry and dodge would go down 1% each.
I'm fairly sure a similar mechanic used to be in effect Pre-TBC at 60%, but don't hold it against me.

On top of that you can get 60% damage reduction from armor, so in effect you'd only take 40% out of 25% damage.

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

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Old 09/26/07, 9:39 AM   #83
Zure
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Nathrezim
There's no cap. As a rogue you can test this, since you can evasion tank.

Armor mitigation caps at 75%, however.

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Old 09/26/07, 9:40 AM   #84
 Tyran
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Zurgat View Post
Isn't avoidance capped at 75% nowadays?
Meaning, if you have a theoretical 30% block, 30% parry, 30% dodge: Then they are only 25% in effect each ?

So, 25% parry, 25% block, 25% dodge. And if you raised your block by 2%, then parry and dodge would go down 1% each.
I'm fairly sure a similar mechanic used to be in effect Pre-TBC at 60%, but don't hold it against me.

On top of that you can get 60% damage reduction from armor, so in effect you'd only take 40% out of 25% damage.
If this was true then warriors wouldn't be able to remove crushings by using shield block.
15% crushing and 10% hits would always remain if avoidance was capped at 75%.

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Old 09/26/07, 9:41 AM   #85
amethyst
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Zurgat View Post
Isn't avoidance capped at 75% nowadays?
No.

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Old 09/26/07, 10:48 AM   #86
zork
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Warrior
 
Eredar (EU)
I finished my avoidance calculator.

You can find it here:
TDMOG Armory - Warrior Avoidance Calculator

I grab all the data needed directly from the Armory.

If you do not have the Itemid, get it from RatingBuster, Wowhead or search for it with my get_itemid_by_name script.
TDMOG Armory - Get ItemID by Name

I double checked the data with the one posted on the character-sheet of the original armory. The parry rating value doesn't seem to be 22.4 its a bit higher ~23.645 actually.

Please give me some comments.

You can add socket bonuses like "enchants" if they add avoidance.

This is the setup of my warrior: Rothar

IMPORTANT: If eu.wowarmory.com is down the calc will not work

Here is some Tier6 Setup with (in my opinion) some of the best tank stuff you can get currently: Tier6 Equip

Last edited by zork : 09/26/07 at 11:31 AM.


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Old 10/11/07, 5:28 PM   #87
Disquette
1) press clutch and break 2) turn key
 
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Human Rogue
 
Sargeras
Time to get this up top again. Please copy your characters over to the U.S. PvE test realm for those people in my group.

We're going to shoot for 3pm Eastern / Noon Pacific on Saturday the 13th.

I'll be sending out a PM shortly.

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Old 10/12/07, 1:33 AM   #88
Shade
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
<JAE>
Boulderfist
Feral druid

[Deathblow X11 Goggles], 10 agi/Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, Glyph of the Defender
[Necklace of the Deep], 2x10 agi
[Thunderheart Pauldrons], 2x10 agi, Greater Inscription of Warding
[Phoenix-Wing Cloak], 12 agi
[Auchenai Monk's Tunic], 2x10agi, 1x4agi/5def, +6 stats
[Insidious Bands], 10agi, +12 def
[Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation], 2x10agi, +15 agi
[Belt of Deep Shadow], 2x10agi
[Skulker's Greaves], 3x10agi, Nethercleft Leg Enchant
[Shadowmaster's Boots], 2x10agi, +12 agi
2x[Delicate Eternium Ring], +4 stats
[Shadowmoon Insignia]
[Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch]
[Stormherald], +35agi

Any upgrades to these items?

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Old 10/12/07, 8:13 PM   #89
Shade
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
<JAE>
Boulderfist
I don't mean to bump the thread, but--has anyone thought of using pure [Greens of Agility] ? Would that bring druid avoidance up?

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Old 10/13/07, 2:39 AM   #90
falonub
Banned
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Ysondre
This may be somewhat off subject, but this was the tank thread I found. I was wondering what is considered "good" TPS for a warrior in 4/5 t6 and equivalents. It seems our TPS has been kinda low this week and was wondering if I had anything to compare it to.

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Old 10/30/07, 7:35 PM   #91
chadcook1999
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Baelgun
Theorycrafted 100% avoidance for a rogue

Updated version of 100% avoidance rogue tank with a twist. In all blues except 2 epics. This should make it easy enough to get a rogue on a kara run to be immune to physical dmg .

Brainstorm of alt blues, sheet 2 is choices made for next link
Google Docs - Tanking Rogue

Word doc of gear choices and all math
roguetank

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Old 10/30/07, 8:11 PM   #92
Taliafears
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Malygos
Your assumption of 5% base dodge is most likely incorrect. It looks incorrect for my rogue. Also, when I was doing my warrior sheet, I found that base dodge was .75% for him, not 5%.

Very interesting though, I'll have to see if I can work out a workable set at my gear level. There will be some nice options in 2.3 too.

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Old 10/31/07, 8:36 AM   #93
Celebrindal
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Shaman
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by chadcook1999 View Post
Updated version of 100% avoidance rogue tank with a twist. In all blues except 2 epics. This should make it easy enough to get a rogue on a kara run to be immune to physical dmg .

Word doc of gear choices and all math
roguetank
Your OH is an Axe and whats your source for those base avoidance stats? From what I remember rogues starts off at something like -0.6% dodge before base agility so your actually about 4.5% short of 100% avoidance, even as a nelf with an axe.

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Old 10/31/07, 10:06 AM   #94
Dontmindme
King Hippo
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by zork View Post

I double checked the data with the one posted on the character-sheet of the original armory. The parry rating value doesn't seem to be 22.4 its a bit higher ~23.645 actually.
The exact ratings formulas are:
Parry: 15 * 82 / 52 = 23.6538
Dodge: 12 * 82 / 52 = 18.9231
Block: 5 * 82 / 52 = 7.8846
Defense: 1.5 * 82 / 52 = 2.3654

Probably best just to plug in the straight formulas, although I believe defense skill itself gets floored.

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Old 10/31/07, 3:47 PM   #95
chadcook1999
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Baelgun
Roguetanktry2

Here is updated version with fixes but still work in progress.

Updated and fixed many items:

Took out 5% base dodge
OH since can't use Ax, used dagger OH for agility
Used numbers for imp Grace of Air and imp Mark of Wild
Updated using exalted Scryer shoulder enchant

Numbers show 101% so 1% avoidance off or about 20 agility. Upgrades are going to be more epics or use +10 agi gems to make up difference.

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Old 10/31/07, 4:34 PM   #96
Left
Don Flamenco
 
Left's Avatar
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Darkspear
Originally Posted by chadcook1999 View Post
Roguetanktry2

...

Numbers show 101% so 1% avoidance off or about 20 agility. Upgrades are going to be more epics or use +10 agi gems to make up difference.
I used a spreadsheet to weight Agility, Dodge, and Defense according to their respective values in avoidance and then used Lootzor to get the absolutely best options for all of them. (You can see the Lootzor weighting on the second tab.) The result is here:
The Avoidance Rogue

Surprisingly, going to Epic gems and a lot of epic loot only gives ~5% more avoidance than your build.

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Old 10/31/07, 8:54 PM   #97
chadcook1999
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Baelgun
Google Docs - roguetankxcelsheet.

I updated it so it's not a document but excel spreadsheet with all the formulas in it so easy to change out and update new data.

Google Docs - roguetankxcelsheetkara

Updated sheetsheet I made with more kara epics to reach 102.4%

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Old 11/01/07, 1:22 PM   #98
eNtropic
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Executus (EU)
Zork, i found a bug in your avoidance calc, please check Styleen's Impeding Scarab trinket, it doesnt give anything, any defense or block... it's probably a wording bug, styleen has the old rating wordings used, "improves your block rating" instead of "improves your SHIELD block rating", or at least that's what i think may be causing this

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Old 11/01/07, 8:52 PM   #99
zork
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Warrior
 
Eredar (EU)
Its no bug its a feature. The problem is how blizzard adds bonuses to some items.
Some of them are not really bonuses instead they are kind of "spelldata". You can easily track them since they always have a "." at the end which normal bonuses do not have.
Its very hard to read that data since you would have to rip apart the spelldata.


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Old 11/01/07, 11:45 PM   #100
eNtropic
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Executus (EU)
Ah so that's how it is, well it doesn't matter much, one can simply input the bonuses manually. Anyways really nice work man.

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