Mage Theorycrafting 2.3

ReignConfused · 10/01/07, 4:07 PM

# (2) Detect Magic removed. All players may now see their target's beneficial effects at all times
# (2) Frost Ward and Fire Ward now gain additional benefit from +Dmg
# (2) Frost Ward and Fire Ward (Ranks 5, 6) have had their base absorb lowered
# Damage coefficient reduction is removed from Improved Fireball/Frostbolt. (Source)
# New spell : Ritual of Refreshment. It will allow players to pick up their own stack of food/water, similar to a Soulwell. (Source)
# Evocation restores 15% of your total mana every 2 seconds instead of being a spirit-based mana regen increase. (Source)
# Arcane Meditation is being increased to 10/20/30% mana regeneration. (Source)
# Ice Barrier gains additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. However, the base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced. (Source)

So my main concern is three fold

The co-efficient removal. A lot of really dumb people are running around screaming 10% dmg increase! WHEEE. A lot of really dumb people are also slapping those people and saying NOT SO NUBBIN! 2% because blah blah blah.

I'm not very good at theorycrafting.

BUT, from what I plugged into Vontre's spreadsheet

All following numbers are assuming 10/48/3

I have a THEORETICAL 2027 DPS.
(holy shit)
With the co-efficient removed I have 2158

~a 5% dps increase from what I can see!

Now this was a very rough way of doing it and I'm not very skilled with theorycrafting I've always read about it and based off that and my own personal experience I have tailored my spec and gear and do reasonably well. So if someone could throw more accurate guesses out there on how exactly this co-efficient graphs out with scaling and what not?

The evocation nerf/buff. Obviously makes spirit a worthless, COMPLETELY worthless stat for fire mages. This is irritating but for an arcane mage does innate mana regen talent make this worth it? Again I'm not very good with theorycrafting and I can't run numbers very well in my head so if anyone could throw out graphs and how THAT scales? Or is this even possible given that we don't know EXACTLY how much spirit is getting buffed? Maybe with present spirit regen rates? or assuming a 10% regen rate or 20%?

Thank you for any and all input on this.

Docjowles · 10/01/07, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by ReignConfused

This is irritating but for an arcane mage does innate mana regen talent make this worth it?

If you are working on your Tier 5 set (as most arcane mages are), I count 112 spirit just from those 5 slots. So you are going to have a fair bit by default. I can't see anyone going out of their way to stack spirit like a healer, though. You need enough mana to end the fight nearly OOM; if you're ending the fight at 50% mana you have item budget you could be spending on damage/hit/crit instead of int/spirit. Speaking for arcane, anyway--fire doesn't have the same all-out burn mode. I see the Arcane Meditation buff as a (small) concession to the problem of chain-potting and requiring a shadow priest to really shine.

I'll admit the evocation change is confusing. On the one hand, they seem to be discouraging mages from stacking spirit. On the other, they go and buff our mana regen talent. Unless there is another unannounced change factoring in, I really don't get their motivation.

snape · 10/01/07, 4:39 PM

The Evocation changes means that the smart Mage will pick up MH + OH + Wand stacking Int instead of Spirit. However, it is highly likely that the Mana return even in this case will be less than the Mage who has Spirit items in those slots currently.

I don't really think the 2 changes are diametrically opposed - because Evocation is available to all specs while Arcane Med is not.

Vontre · 10/01/07, 4:39 PM

Spirit might be an interesting stat if it did something useful. If you end up going oom, it just means you should have specced fire or frost instead of arcane, or downranked.

snape · 10/01/07, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

Spirit might be an interesting stat if it did something useful. If you end up going oom, it just means you should have specced fire or frost instead of arcane, or downranked.

I actually valuate Spirit as a raid DPS stat because of Improved Divine Spirit. I think that qualifies as "something useful", although it really only adds about 20-25 +dmg usually.

Aldric · 10/01/07, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by ReignConfused

All following numbers are assuming 10/48/3

I have a THEORETICAL 2027 DPS.
(holy shit)
With the co-efficient removed I have 2158

~a 5% dps increase from what I can see!

I think maybe you're using Vontre's spreadsheet wrong. Are you maybe putting your base spell damage in the spell damage slot and then your total (fire and +dmg) in the fire damage field? In any case the 5% change is probably about right for a low geared mage. In an empowered fireball spec your fireball damage will be

2.2: Base + dmg * (.9 + .15)
2.3: Base + dmg * (1.15)

So in cases where Base = dmg*1.15 then yes, you should see a gain of ~5%. As this shifts toward more +dmg then the dps increase will be larger than 5%.

Kavan · 10/01/07, 6:12 PM

Combining Evocation and Arcane Meditation changes and assuming spirit regen mechanincs remains the same is a nerf to spirit and buff to mana regen at the same time for Arcane mages. To give some numbers I get 10 spirit = 6.7 mp5 for current state in 2.2 (on typical enrage boss, comparing marginal effect on total damage done), removing evocation dependency on spirit drops its value to 10 spirit = 5.2 mp5. Increasing combat regen counters this a bit to 10 spirit = 5.9 mp5. So value of spirit is decreased, but overall mana regenned during fight increases. It's also worth mentioning that since Evocation is based on total mana this increases value of int.

Roywyn · 10/01/07, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by ReignConfused

All following numbers are assuming 10/48/3

I have a THEORETICAL 2027 DPS.
(holy shit)
With the co-efficient removed I have 2158

~a 5% dps increase from what I can see!

Using the absolutely best gear for fire spec, consumables, molten armour, 0.2s cast delay, I can only get to around 1855 DPS for fireball spam with the coefficient removed. Not sure how your get your values up that high - I guess bloodlust and a short fight or so?

The coefficient change will be a 5% boost at blue gear levels, going up to 7% at maximal gear, consumable and raid buff levels.

About the spirit/evocation - it leaves a somewhat sour taste.
Without an SP, I don't think mages, moonkin and elemental shaman can sustain the long fights, not even with the meditation (mages)/clearcasting (shaman) changes.
With an SP, everything but AB spam becomes sustainable, and people usually use molten armour then with the occasional pot.
And AB spam has been obsoleted by AM+MSD/TLC/AToI spam.

So now, in most situations, they now get nothing anymore from spirit unless they don't cast for 5 seconds. And even for arcane, I'm not convinced if the mana from meditation offers a real benefit or if it just saves you pots.
That feels kind of stupid ...

I don't really see the need for a new thread though.

TBC Mage Theorycrafting is discussing all kind of mage theorycrafting. Just pop in and ask!

[Mage] How Can Arcane Damage Work? is discussing arcane, and the arcane vs. fire comparison in 2.2 and 2.3 and whatnot.