◊ Lactose

These are the values I've got so far. They should be correct within 0.5%. I've also included the converted raw armor values for these, rounded to nearest 100. I will collect more data and update as needed when possible.

Tests were done using an attack with minimal damage range, comparing observed damage (ability hit boss for x damage) to raw damage (ability does y damage on 0 armor mob), while keeping track of various debuffs which would affect the result (e.g. Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire, Hunter's Mark, etc) and reverse-engineering the raw numbers.


KARAZHAN
Attumen the Huntsman: 41.5% -- 7500
Midnight: 43.5% -- 8200
Maiden of Virtue: 39.0% -- 6700
Julianne: 36.5% -- 6100
Romulo: 42.0% -- 7600
Strawman: 41.0% -- 7300
Roar: 31.0% -- 4700
The Curator: 36.5% -- 6100
Shade of Aran: 26.5% -- 3800
Kil'rek: 24.5% -- 3400
Terestian Illhoof: 39.0% -- 6700
Nightbane: 42.0% -- 7600
Netherspite: 34.0% -- 5500
Prince Malchezaar: 42.0% -- 7600


TEMPEST KEEP
Al'ar: 40.0% -- 7000
Void Reaver: 50.0% -- 10700
High Astromancer Solarian: 37.0% -- 6200


SERPENTSHRINE CAVERN
Lady Vashj: 37.0% -- 6200


OUTDOOR
Doomwalker: 42.0% -- 7600

SNAKEBALL™

 

• Aldriana

So, question. I was of the impression that the armor mitigation formula for a level 70 attacker was x/(x+10557.5); if this is true, and Void Reaver has 50% armor, wouldn't his armor be ~10600 rather than 12k? It seems like these numbers were based more off a level 73 attacker which uses the formula x/(x+11960). Is this correct, or am I way off base?

 

◊ Lactose

The formula I'm using vs level 73 is:

ArmorMitigation = Amor/(Armor+11960)

If this is incorrect I'll have to update the values.

EDIT: I have updated main post due to this being the incorrect formula.

SNAKEBALL™

 

Crimsonstorm

Thats correct for us fighting against a 73 mob.

But for a 73 mob fighting against us level 70s? Wouldnt his armor % reduciton be based on a level 70 opponent, which would be the 10600 or whatever value?

 

• Vulajin

The armor formula is only based on the level of the attacking character. It doesn't matter what level the armored character is. In other words, the formula Lactose used is right.

(edit) Errr, wait, I'm stupid. Lactose used the wrong one. It should be 10557.5. Sorry. :x

 

Zaroua

If people are going to do testing on this, they need to make sure that the character they use doesn't have %increase damage through talents or abilities.

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

◊ Lactose

Ah, crap. Give me 5 minutes to update.

EDIT: Done.

SNAKEBALL™

 

Dayve

I've been doing a fair bit of testing on mob armor over the past month. I've been using pretty much the same method as Lactose, although I use imp. Thunder Clap (which has a fixed damage amount).

To make things easier, I wrote a simple addon that watches for TC hitting my target, calculates how much it should have hit for before armor reduction, and outputs into a chat window the range of armor values that could have produced the observed hit (taking into account any armor debuffs of course). My estimates were then taken from the intersection of all the ranges that I recorded. From the size of the ranges, the accuracy of the results should be about +/- 30.

So far, I've managed to get results for almost every trash mob and boss in SSC, TK, BT, and Hyjal. Some of the values are different from the ones Lactose obtained. I'll just list the boss armor values, because those are the useful ones .

Gruul's Lair:
High King Maulgar: 7700
Gruul the Dragonkiller: 7700

Magtheridon's Lair:
Magtheridon: 7700

Zul'Aman:
Nalorakk: 7700
Akil'zon: 7700
Jan'alai: 7700
Halazzi: 7700
Hex Lord Malacrass: 6200
Zul'jin: 7700

Serpentshrine Cavern:
Hydross the Unstable: 7700
The Lurker Below: 7700
Leotheras the Blind: 7700
Fathom-Lord Karathress 6200
Morogrim Tidewalker: 7700
Lady Vashj: 6200

Tempest Keep:
Void Reaver: 8800
High Astromancer Solarian: 6200
Al'ar: 7700
Kael'thas Sunstrider: 6200

Hyjal Summit:
Rage Winterchill: 6200
Anetheron: 6200
Kaz'rogal: 6200
Azgalor: 6200
Archimonde: 6200

Black Temple:
High Warlord Naj'entus: 7700
Supremus: 7700
Shade of Akama: 7700
Teron Gorefiend: 6200
Gurtogg Bloodboil: 7700
Reliquary of Souls:
- Essence of Suffering: 0
- Essence of Desire: 7700
- Essence of Anger: 7700
Mother Shahraz: 6200
Illidari Council:
- Gathios the Shatterer: 6200
Illidan Stormrage: 7700

Sunwell Plateau:
Kalecgos (Dragon): 6200
- Sathrovarr the Corruptor: 6200
Brutallus: 7700
Felmyst: 6200
The Eredar Twins:
- Grand Warlock Alythess: 6200
- Lady Sacrolash: 6200
M'uru: 7700
- Shadowsword Fury Mage: 5700
- Shadowsword Berserker: 7100
- Void Sentinel: 6800

Notice that all but 2 of the bosses have either 6200 or 7700 armor. A similar pattern occurs in the trash mobs: 5475/5700/5950 or 6800/7100/7400 for level 70/71/72 mobs. In terms of percentage reduction, these values result in either 34.15% or 39.15% armor reduction vs attackers of the same level as the mob.

 

PSGarak

So then how much of an effective damage increase would one see out of Sunder, FF, and CoR respectively? Also, what is the value of the Armor Penetration stat against a debuffed target?

 

Dayve

The answer to that isn't simple; all of those things are dependant on how much armor the boss has before debuffs, as well as what other debuffs are on the boss.

Armor reduction of a level 73 boss attacked by a level 70 player is 37% for 6200 armor, and 42.17% for 7700 armor. Sunder Armor x5 is -2600 armor, Faerie Fire is -610, and Curse of Recklessness is -800.

For a boss with 6200/7700 armor, SA x5 gives a damage increase of 18.36%/16.61%.

If we assume now that the boss has SA stacked x5 on it, adding just FF gives a further 4.5%/4.05% increase, CoR gives 5.99%/5.38%, and with both on they give 11.06%/9.9% increase over just SA.

Armor Penetration is a bit more complex because it comes it varied amounts. If the boss has just SA x5 on it, then the effect of ArP is as follows:
100 ArP: 0.71%/0.64%
200 ArP: 1.43%/1.29%
300 ArP: 2.16%/1.95%
400 ArP: 2.91%/2.62%
500 ArP: 3.66%/3.3%

For a fully debuffed boss (SA x5, FF, CoR) the increase from ArP is:
100 ArP: 0.79%/0.71%
200 ArP: 1.59%/1.42%
300 ArP: 2.41%/2.15%
400 ArP: 3.24%/2.89%
500 ArP: 4.08%/3.64%

 

Drabu

What if use [Badge of the Swarmguard] to test?

 

Shandara

I think the most important conclusion to come out of this discussion, is to establish a baseline figure for the mitigation after full debuffs (i.e. Sunderx5, FF, CoR).

With 4010 armor taken off by outside debuffs, the player themselves only need to deal with 2190 or 3690 armor. It should be trivial to see what benefit certain items have then.

For example, looking at the Beast Lord set:

It grants -600 armor on a succsefull Kill Command. Against a 2190/3690 armor target, that would amount to a 4,94%/4,40% damage increase (if it were up 100%).

 

◊ Lactose

That's pretty much what I've been doing as well. In my case, my damage range is x - (x+1). I've got Debuff Filter set up to filter the debuffs which would affect the result, and several of these values are from Misdirection at the start of the fight (i.e. no one has applied any debuffs yet).
I'll go over my logs again, as well as try to verify them this reset.

SNAKEBALL™

 

Emeraude

I do wonder if -armor will also become a "rating" stat in the future, relative to your character. Items like [Madness of the Betrayer] will have some sick staying power even @ 80.

 

Dayve

I doubt -armor will be turning into a rating as it doesn't scale at all. Higher level bosses will have more armor, and hence a given amount of -armor will have less effect as you get higher in level, unlike something like %crit.

 

D4vE

To my knowledge FF and CoR do not stack, if both are active only CoR counts.

 

Dayve

My addon assumes that they do stack, and gives consistent results when FF, CoR, or FF + CoR is up, which would indicate that they do in fact stack.

 

sp00n

Where did you get that from, the first time ever I hear this.

Item Ranking Rogue [horribly outdated]

 

Noobiisa

No, that is not correct, they do stack and you can verify it very easy, just ask the lock to wait abit before applying CoR and see what your fix dmg abilities dmg is and ask him to apply it and compare.

 

Osse

So according to thise values my 350 armor penetration gives either 36 or 28.8 dps in BT, neat.

 

BoinKlasik

Anybody else surprised at Solarian's fairly high value? I cant figure out why melee seem to perform better on this fight especially when you look at the fact that hijal bosses all have about the same amount of armor.

 

zeratulgr

Not really it actually verifys what my guild rogues were saying,that they dont see any insane difference compared to other bosses.There is an armor difference but nothing extrodirnary like RoS phase 1 where I have crited Bloodthirst for 6,5k.I am suprised tho that phase 2 and 3 RoS has such a good armor value I can swear I had some major crits on those phases too and not while deaden was on the boss.

 

Malazaar

EoS Phase 2 and 3 both have other means of increasing your damage (Deaden and Aura of Anger). So you will be seeing high crits there regardless of their armor.

 

Indora

Lactose & Dayve I just love you for this thread
searched months for something like this ^^

 

• fangar

This is a fantastic thread. I have been looking to quantify Armor Penetration for a while.

As for Solarian - I never noticed bigger hits on her, it's just that there is no aggro so all melee can go crazy without worrying about the difference in the melee/ranged caster threat thresholds. I know as an enhancement shaman I love this fight because I can go all out, which I generally can't do elsewhere which yields more pleasing results.

For the love of god please read the Original Post!