Frah

The problem i have with MSD is the requirements of having more blue gems than yellow. I take it this is viable for arcane spec due to the 10% hit from talents and hence the reduced need for the +dam/hit orange gems? That new gem for 3% more damage on spell crits has interested me in the T5 helm now.

Personally I will find it hard to change to arcane as I have been fire since pretty much day 1 (except frost for MC and BWL... and alar... /sigh). At the moment trinket choice is causing me headaches. Currantly i have: TLC, quags eye, serpant coil, silver crescent icon and i could easily get the blessings deck. I find that TLC seems to shine most when I am aoeing heavily but when it comes to single target it is hard to decide what to use.

 

maxi

Basically i have this problem and need a little help here.

I am a 10/48/3 spec for raids, with 900 fire damage, 300 critrate and 110 hitrate (hitcapped with ele shammie in group).

According to Vontre's sheet, i should be going over 1k dps.

In reality, 800-900 is my peak.

So i am wondering, how come?

My dps rotation is basically fireball spam with scorch refreshes. I am using quartz, /stopcasting and also use trinkets and combustion early and often, timing them with Heroism and other similar stuffs. I use consumables - usually a flask and food.

But for some reason, even on tank and spank fights with no movement at all, i still fall 200 dps short of theoretical maximum.

Any ideas on why this might be happening?

 

Vhad

I've been trying to follow all the posts since 2.3 PTR came up but havn't found an answer to my question:

With the coefficient nerf undone, will that make arcane fire (40 18 3, 33 28 and 33 25 3) more viable? I remember seeing the graph of the 3 different spec's at the time based on gear.

I'm starting to realize arcane will probably be dead for all intents and purposes after 2.3 so I'll have to look into alternative builds and I'm not really fond of speccing 10 48 3 and would much prefer the arcane route, but I would have to be able to justify it, thus my question.

Thanks in advance.

What!?

 

Morriel

Anybody know when the 2.3 Patch is due to go live ?

With the co-efficiency nerf being removed from fire, and with all of the new Zul +hast item, i think i will stay fire and try out some of the new gear.

Just a quick +hit question.

How important is it to max out +hit ?

I mean can you get away with 125 or do you need to max out 164 with 10/48/03 ?

Will the extra 39 points of +hit really make that much of a difference ?

 

chase

They never release a date for patches. (Well sometimes the night before they spill the beans)


It is very very important to max out +hit.
Miss is the blackhole of dps.
(12.3 spell hit = 1% 39/12.3 ~= 3% So on average you should get a 3% increase)

 

vishal

maximizing burst damage.
hey guys,

my guild is trying to down vashj and i just wanted to see what you guys think. I have been deep fire so far and well it works well with elementals. but i am thinking about increasing my burst damage more so that when the tainted elemental is on i can kill it faster then return to other elementals.
this is what i am thinking to do:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
this is what i am:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...emaul&n=Vishal
As other mages would notice i have not taken the scorch 15% debuff in my build because when in 3rd phase it seems i couldn't keep up scorch anyway. and phase 1 doesn't really matter its easy.

what do you guys think, i have seen theorycast where deep fire is suppose to beat any arcane/fire due to 20% extra damage after the boss is below 20%. Is that the only reason why deep fire wins? or is it mana related also?

... we had her down to 4%.... so annoying..

 

• Maligne

Spreadsheets are good for viewing the theoretical and for comparisons. They shouldn't be used as a "this is exactly what will happen" type of tool. In real world scenarios you can pretty much assume 100-200 DPS less than what the spreadsheet says you should get due to factors like moving, interrupts, resist strings, human error (even very small), etc.

At your gear level the only spec that will compete with fire is arcane with MSD, and that's only until 2.3 comes out. I would recommend staying fire and for the love of god take improved scorch and use it. Yes it's that important. I'd even say that your 4% wipe could have been a kill if improved scorch had been used the whole time. And there are very very few fights where you can't keep improved scorch up - P3 Vashj is certainly not one of them. Do you have any other fire mages? If so they need to be helping.

What better cc is there for a druid than polymorph?

 

vishal

no we don' thave any firemages besides me. We have 2 arcane mages 1 arcane/frost mage.
so its only me trying to keep up debuff.
well i will try to keep the debuff up , i was thinking it might be better to spam fireball and do 50% more damage when critting then to move and cast scorch as the MT is moving vashj around in p3.

 

Grandaddy

Unless you think you can guarantee an AP/PoM Pyro for every Tainted coming up on your side, you are taking a big consistent damage loss for little gain. With even one other Fire mage it's easy to keep up Scorch. For a couple weeks I was keeping it up almost solo on Vashj with the occasional help of an AB rotation mage. It's definitely doable if you're tracking the timer.

While it's true that that spec gives you some nice burst damage options, you are missing out on Playing with Fire and Fire Power for a big increase in your consistent damage to Tainteds and other elementals. Not to mention Molten Fury when you're getting Vashj below 20%. You should be able to solo down a tainted with a fireball, jump over and DB/BW, Fireblast on the way. There is enough burst damage in Fire for Vashj adds without compromising your usefulness outside the 3-minute cooldowns.

 

eirek

*All stats are unbuffed*

Alright, I'm having some problems with spell hit. In my trash killing gear I'm at 1163 Spell Dmg, +36 Spell Hit, and 26.3% crit.

My spell rotation is just full blown scorch throughout the fight. I know everyone says that the Fireball - Scorch rotation does more dps, but I'm typically at 850dps, and #1 or #2 in dps in our fights, and when I've tried the fireball rotation I've usually been a little less on dmg + I like to PvP and scorch is better than fireball imo for that.

My problem is on bosses; my +hit gear is at 895 Spell Dmg, 148 hit, and 22.79% crit. I've tested this on Prince, Gruul, High King, and Lurker, and on every fight my dps is 50-100 points higher when I'm in my Trash Gear then when I'm in my +hit Gear(800 vs 850-900dps). I can't seem to find, either what I'm doing wrong, or why spell hit is rated so high.

I've even ran my spec and gear through the mage calculator and it even tells me that my +hit gear should do more dmg, but up to date it hasn't.

Any Opinions?

 

andastra

I did my own computations a while back and valued hit rating at around 1.2 spell damage and crit rating at .67. With my current gear, I believe I now value crit rating at around .8. Now, my calculations are probably not completely accurate as I know some people value spell hit more than me.

That said, your crit rating goes down by 3.5% on your spell hit gear. That's 77 crit rating. Basically, you're giving up 268 spell damage and 77 crit rating for 112 hit rating. I suggest coming up with a number value for spell hit versus damage to compare gear with. It looks like you're giving up too much to get spell hit.

 

Sancus

Not even the most optimistic calculations for hit gear make 112 hit rating > 268 spell damage - that would require spellhit to be worth 2.4 dmg. It's good, but it's nowhere near *that* good. It's more like 1.5 at most.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

eirek

Alright, that makes sense in where I went wrong...I'll rework my numbers and try to stay higher in dmg/crit while still getting some more +hit with values around those numbers.

 

Kir

if you switched out a 100 dmg/40 crit rating purple item for a +20 hit green item, you'd lose dps That's effectively what you did. I would confidently say that your +hit gear is just lower ilvl items overall.

Get items that spread their item budget among all three, or at least two, of these stats when possible. Prince's cloak is best in game until BT, if you aren't hit capped already, for example. Ashyen's gift is a good ring for your current progression, +hit and good +dmg, etc etc..

 

Roywyn

As mentioned above, you lose way to much damage/crit for those 112 hit rating.
Rule of thumb - 1 hit ~1.7 dmg, 1 crit ~0.7 dmg.
Also, with these high numbers - are you using arcane/fire spec? Usually, a real fire spec is better when you only use fire spells.



A completely different thing though:
Why does the link to your character lead to a house renovation company?
I don't think that kind of advertisement is welcome here.

 

eirek

Oops, sorry...I used a one click generator for my information and it must have put that in automatically..Already removed

 

Bodkins

I have been thinking that I could do with some advice from the more experienced mages who have been in MH / BT for some time with reference to what gear we should be looking to obtain.

Currently I am cookie cutter fire raid build but will possibly swing to deep frost from time to time - but fire will be my main raid spec.

I have yet to look at the drops in depth and was wondering if someone more familiar with the items from the t6 content could give some advice on where to spend dkp?

The T6 set looks good and the 4 bit bonus seems like a great thing to be aiming for, but any other advice would be great.

Thanks in advance and my apologies if I have over looked this information in a previous post – also if this is too far from the OP – but it seems like a fitting place to ask for assistance

 

Pintofbrew

Eirek: The mages above have solved your hitrate problem, however even so I'd still advise against using scorch under any circumstance over fireball. What i suspect has happened is you've tried fireballing some trash a few times, been unlucky and had a few resists, and a statistical spike of 2 resists in 2m fireball compared with the same in scorch is giving you the false impression scorch is somehow better.

Under no circumstance or spec can scorch's 4% extra crit make it better than fireball spam, even in mind-boggling 33.28 spec with CSD and pre-nerf TLC. The more gear you get, the better 'ball will become. Scorch remains the pvp preference, but for raiding it's only really there to buff your fireballs.

And of course, given you're not in shitty blues (which you're obviously not in) 10.48.3 will always outperform 40.18.3 The gain from mind mastery and spell power is piddly compared to all the goodie goodness you get from fire.

 

Arjun

I'd like to consult you all on the topic of mage gearing in 2.3 and beyond. What do you guys this is specifically the ideal set of T6-level gearing for a 10/48/3 mage?

Specifically I'm wondering:

1.is haste gear is preferable to stat/dmg gear in the offset slots? (tailored haste shoulders and wrists, waistwrap of infinity) vs. (anetheron's noose, cuffs of devastation, T6 shoudlers)

2. What is the ideal min/max set up for the set pieces? i.e. 4pc T6 with the Illidan helm or Robes of rhonin or leggings of channeled elements vs. 5pc T6.

3. What to do with the shoulder slot? Is the spell pen on the T6 shoulders worth anything? Would using a warlock's offset shoulder piece be better (Hatefury mantle or whatever)?

Assumptions with these questions: hit capped, 10/48/3 spec with a shadow priest and perhaps 50% CoE uptime on bosses

 

Prod

1. Personally, and this was different for arcane, I'm not a fan of the haste items for fire. Maybe the bracer, maybe. To be honest I'm just at the point where I can even use hearts now that EVERYONE in the guild has their shadow resist. You won't be getting any for a long time. Well, maybe not that long, since Hyjal drops them now too. The Winterchill ones are great if you can get them. There is no shortage of wrists in t6 content, unfortunately.

2. Illidan Helm or Hyjal pants are a good replacement. Vashj robes too. It depends what you can get your hands on. Personally I went to the Illidan helm because I expect every s3 mage to have the t6 helm graphic on. Looking unique played a role, I guess.

3. It's useless but you need the item. The shoulders in general are awful.

 

pipermoonrunner

I've been following the 3 main mage TC posts, and come up with the following stats conversion based on the various posts and testings as my rule of thumb for 10/48/3 come 2.3.

1 hit rating = 1.5~1.6dmg
1 haste rating = 1.5dmg
1 crit rating = 0.6~0.7dmg

or (roughly) 1 hit (slightly)> 1 haste = 1.5dmg = 2.14 crit

stats importance hit > haste > dmg > crit


What do you experts think?

edit: I forgot the include something on the new thing in place to eliminate the need of /stopcasting macro. It was talked about quite a bit in the arcane thread but I am not 100% what the end result was. Can someone clarify? As far as I remember, people were still testing as to how our "spaming" would work.

 

Pintofbrew

Piper: The same has been said in pretty much all of the active mage threads time and again.

What I think is use a simulator (if you find Vontre's too complex, Lhivera's will do) and get the numbers yourself, or if you feel adventurous, do hand-calculations and get a DPS result, then compare the same result for +10dmg, +10Critrate, +10hit and +10haste. Subtract the difference in DPS between +10dmg and the baseline, and that's your "standard".

Subtract all three other values from the baseline, and divide the resultant value with the "standard". This will net you the difference between +crit, +hit and +haste compared to +dmg. (where +dmg is 1 of course)

Edit: if you can't be bothered, I'd say you're pretty accurate for rule of thumb, though I'd think that haste is a little enthusiastic and Hit includes the "if gate" of 1h=1.6dmg *up to hitcap* whereupon it's worth approx. +0.0dmg. Or, if you're being pedantic, it's worth some very small amount of +pen.

 

Guinuvere

I've been reading a lot about the new CSD and nerfed MSD and wondered if anyone has tested this. Cowl of the Grand Engineer vs. T4 helm with either meta. I've got

10/48/3 Build.
1023 fire damage.
Hit capped.
roughly 35% crit self buffed.
0 haste.

I've got Vontre's spreadsheet and am still figuring out how to use it. Just wondered if someone has tested this already.

 

Gilthanor

No reply a few days after posting this in the WWS thread, hoping for some help here.

Looking for feedback on our AoE for Hydross and Morogrim.

Wow Web Stats

I'm not comfortable with our current AoE performances. I was absent from last night's raid, but I switch back and forth with Baneskwid for the top two spots, beating the others by a healthy margin most of the time. Last night he was allowed to be the star of the show and you can see the result; 700 more DPS and 200,000 more damage than the closest contender. The issue with our other warlocks seems obvious at least. Not only did Morthanos' SoC hit for less, crit for less, and crit less often, but he also cast the spell 90 times fewer than Baneskwid.

I don't know what to expect from the mages. All of them are still some iteration of 10/48/3 to my knowledge, so none of them are AoEing as a frost mage. I think we're seeing low numbers because they're not wanting to get in the mix and spam AE since they're hitting the adds with Frost Nova, and we all know how rooted mobs behave. We have tanks or melee grab the adds on Hydross and bring them to the middle then Frost Nova on the nature phase, and for Morogrim we have a prot pally that is grabbing and holding the murlocs, with Frost Nova as a bonus "gotcha" on the adds. What is a normal AoE routine for a fire mage, and should they be using Frost Nova at all?