Maeltne

Ah I see. Thanks.

It may mean however that I have to pay more attention. I usually just mash my mangle/maul macro + lacerate buttons that the CDs allowed everything to proceed how it should. Now they may coincide.

On a brighter note, I'm mildly happy about:
Non-corporeal Undead and Mechanical creatures are now susceptible to bleed effects.

 

• Daboran

Yes, the nerf seems more aimed at Cat mangle-spam or Pounce/Mangle/Shred openers in PvP than anything else.
Would it be that they are trying to make the lucky combo of Pounce>Mangle crit>Shred crit>Maim with a couple of OOC procs impossible to pull off? That combo is pretty devastating to a cloth class as you can regen 2 ticks while stunned under Maim and then shred them again, which can be enough to kill them while completely stunlocked.

It could however affect Cat dps slightly in PvE forcing you to wait slightly longer after Rip>Mangle before you can Shred again thus delaying your build-up of combo points.

 

Maeltne

Sorry, nope. the 1->1.5s GCD is unique to bear.

Mangle (Bear) now properly triggers a 1.5 second global cooldown, increased from 1.0 second.

PvP in general and PvE cats don't need any nerfs :P

 

• Daboran

Oh, my bad then, didn't read properly. I don't see what mechanic they are trying to break by increasing the GCD on Bear though or is it just one of those things they never got round to doing?

 

TimWischmeier

I guess they only adjustet the GCD value to make it consistent to all other abilities in Bearform (read: non-catform). I think they may also have not noticed yet, that FFF in Bearform also only causes a 1 second gcd.

 

coredumperror

With 2.4 around the corner (yay for background downloader!), I'm starting to seriously weigh various uses of badges for the new loot. I've got 215 saved up, and the first 260 are absolutely going to the new tanking chest, pants, and ring, as they are gigantic upgrades over my s3 chest, t4 legs, and old badge ring (never got Mag's head, and I'm replacing the lost resil from s3 chest with s3 helm).

Since it's not really looking like I'll need many badges for gems (my guild is focusing on BT progression atm, and we're fairly swimming in gems), I'm wondering what pieces of DPS gear I should pick up first? My current set is hit capped, and I plan to replace the Lurker ring with the badge ring, and my s2 mace with the badge staff. In the other spots which I could replace with badge loot (or the new crafted stuff, since I'm a LW who's likely to see at least the first two bosses worth of Sunwell trash fairly soon), I'm using [Gloves of the Searing Grip], [Waistguard of the Great Beast] (with 2x8agi gems), [Vengeful Gladiator's Dragonhide Tunic] (2x4agi/6stam, 5agi/4hit gem), and [Leggings of Murderous Intent]. I also have some pieces of gear with no hit on them, which I could sub in or out depending on how much hit my best choices have.

So my question is: What should I spend my badges on first? Save up for a while to get the staff, or go for the cheaper ring/gloves? I'm not really sure how best to figure that out.

----------------------
My DPS Set
My Boss-Tanking Set

 

Enoon

I am in the same boat as you and lean towards saving for the staff first. I do not have my numbers with me atm but IIRC it was around a 187AP gain with the new badge staff over the S2 mace (based off of the numbers on page 1 and if my math was right that early in the morning). Being over the hit cap at 164 I will be fine loosing the S2 mace. Finally buying the last 2 FR pieces hurt my badge count so it will be some time before I get the staff but from what I saw nothing else provides such a large gain.

Or am I missing something?

 

Kaleido

Thank you =D

 

Krag

Badge purchases all depend on where your biggest holes are and what your priorities are I guess. I use Rawr to see which potential upgrades gives me the best result for the badges spent. Right now my plan is getting 1) Tank ring 2) Staff 3) Dps ring 4) Dps pants. The staff is definitely a huge upgrade unless you are already sporting the S3 staff.

 

Xertigo

I am not convinced that the tanking chest is a gigantic upgrade over the s3 chest, in fact, I would consider it a bit of a downgrade. The badge chest is ilvl 141 and has 5 stats + 1 socket, while the s3 chest is ilvl 146 has 8! stats + 3 sockets. More stats, more sockets and a higher ilvl just means you get more useful stuff out of the s3 chest, not to mention the fact that s3 chest + s3 hat can nearly make you crit immune (maybe 1 other item with def or res necessary to reach immunity).

You can always use rawr to look at various gear options, but the new feral staff drop is deeper in Sunwell than you expect to reach initially, so the badge staff represents an upgrade that won't be replaced soon while some of the other pieces could be replaced rather quickly.

 

Nathariel

It depends whether the stats are really useful though.

The additional stats on [Vengeful Gladiator's Dragonhide Tunic] such as Armor Pen, Crit, Hit and Int are nice for offtanking and threat, but are really not as useful for taking the hits as more Agi, and Armor on [Embrace of Everlasting Prowess].

It would take both the red gems to get the same amount of agi as the badge chest and you would be left with a yellow socket and a less helpful socket bonus.

A stam gemmed S3 helm would be an upgrade anyway over Malorne, and the Resil would keep him uncrittable.

 

spartakos

Don't forget that the badges vendor opens through quests. So it depends on what is your server active population. The badges loot will be available around the same time S4 is, if what they say about it is true. The only badges loot that will be 100% better than S4 loot is the ring.

 

Nathariel

Is there a link to when they intend to release the s4 items?

I didn't think there was any release date information beyond "not yet".

 

• Daboran

There is also the point that for a certain Sunwell boss you will need as much armor/hp as you can manage (preferably armor-capped without needing the Priest/Shaman proc). I was originally going to pass on T6 chest but I think I'll go for that now - if you can't get Illidan loot then the badge chest is a great tanking upgrade with Sunwell in mind.

 

Duilliath

Think I only read about Druids tanking him - but since we have a prot warrior that's MTed every single first kill so far I've the feeling they'll put him on the job (and I hope to whatever god you hold dear that he decides to get some more stamina...)

How do Warriors on him ? Or are Druids the far better tank there ? (Probably too much to hope for anyway, knowing Blizzard.)

 

• Daboran

Take a closer look at his abilities - they are documented pretty well in various places. I would seriously consider gearing up in preparation if I were you

 

dakalro

Chances of your MT performing the single imba MT role in Sunwell are slim to none. For almost the whole of it you need 3 tanks that are each perfectly capable and geared to MT. From what I understood gone are the times of 5agi/7 sta gems or even spinels for a while in Sunwell.

 

◊ Vaccine

What sort of DPS are you guys doing in a pretty much unsupported group? I usually get chucked in with 3 hunters and the MT. The MT is using commanding shout so no BS, hunters are BM specced so I get Ferocious Inspiration and the like. I'm struggling to break the 1300 dps mark in this group, that seems awfully low to me. What would others in my situation (BT on farm for 5-6 months) be doing in a similar situation? Bare in mind that I'm the only feral in the guild so have no mangle bot either.

It is kind of bothering me now when I have a perfect fight, powerfshifting down to a tee, cycles going so well I sometimes have to shred on 5 CP just to prevent wasting energy, yet at the end of the fight I come out at 1250 or something and the only one lower is the odd shadow priest . Running with 2xT4 but not the T6 bonus (can't get spinels till 2.4). With Sunwell coming up I really want to justify keeping myself in on fights where I'm purely as DPS (albeit it looks like just the 1 fight, max 2 so far). I want my raid to succeed and I don't know if I can sit in on a fight where I'm not tanking in a progression raid over just bringing another DPS in.

I know LotP is extra MT crit and the hunters gain some benefit from it but I don't really know too much about hunters so don't know what sort of "hidden DPS" to think of as my raid contribution when it comes to these. I can't imagine it being another 700 DPS which is roughly what a rogue would pull if he replacemed me (well maybe not without WF but closer to 500 then).

My DPS gear is average I'd say. As said I have no T6 in my DPS set as its all gemmed with 15 stamina till I can buy some spinels in 2.4. I use malorne shoulders and gloves for the 2 set T4 bonus and the rest is mostly a mix of ZA and BT/MH gear with the odd bad slot (still using hourglass and consortium rep neck).

Am I just being paranoid or is there something I can do to increase this? I'm fairly certain my DPS cycle and powershifting are bang on. The only thing I was considering is that I'm not quite hit capped (around 120 hit) which can from time to time mess up a cycle but it isn't a huge deal.


WWS Parses:
Teron last night: WWS Loading... - The mage below me on DPS ate the first ghost.

Rage Winterchill: WWS Loading... - Only buff I had this time was Battleshout, 1150 dps.

Kaz'Rogal: WWS Loading... - Same group as rage, 1176 dps.

 

• Daboran

You are about where you should be for your gear by the sound of it.

Remember that crit buffs are harder to come by than AP buffs in a raid setting, so you should be eating agi food, agi scrolls, taking an agi elixir and if you can find a crafter [Elemental Sharpening Stone] is great too.

As has been mentioned many times, Druid's don't earn their place from pure dps, but you should be making an effective contribution. I judge our "pure" dps by whether they can beat me if I'm in a pure dps role also (unless they are in a an obviously non-optimal group). Every dps class "should" beat you or be in the same area given equal gear levels and discounting encounters where casters get their casts interrupted by environmental factors.

If you want people to be seriously impressed, get yourself put into an Enhancement Shaman group with Hunters and agi totem

 

tagrat

As far as i know, sharpening stone as no effect in cat or dire bear form, am i right?

 

Inaiwae

@ Vaccine: My best dps result is 1200 on Teron without any party buffs except one battle shout from the tank, but i dont know how long it was up. I also didnt have full pala buffs, i had salvation only. So i was pretty much self-buffed.

edit: After re-check, i had dps warrior in my group, so i had battle shout all the time.

WWS Loading...

Ignore the "bear" abilities, our MT died few seconds before Teron so i automatically switched form.

My stats unbuffed: 3300 atp, 42% crit, 141 hit rating, 500 aPen, 2t4 bonus, 2t6 bonus. At the time of this parse i had no MH/BT rogue gear.

I have few questions:
- how did you manage to use Haste potion 4 times? Or is that "Haste" buff something else?
- do you have any "on use" dmg trinket ? Lately i am using Berserker's call together with haste potion's to maximize its effectivenes, but also Bloodlust Brooch seems better than Hourglass when timed with haste and potentialy heroism.
- I am not sure that t4 shoulders and gloves are the best choice. I personally use T4 shoulders and helm. Since you do not use t4 helm, do you have RED?
- what legs / head do you use? I spent long time evaluating dmg gear and i came to a conclusion that pre-2.4 there is no option superior to t4 head/shoulders and t6 legs/hands even if the t6 is stamina gemmed.

When i get all the upgrades i want (t6 tank shoulders so i can reenchant t4, insidious bracers, shadowmaster's boots and neck from Supremus), i expect to do 1200-1300dps self buffed on Teron (with maximum consumables incl. elem. sharpening stones and haste potions).

Similarly as you, i am trying to push my DPS up really hard because i do not want to be swapped for DPS classes in progression times in Sunwell. I think that my dps will be at the border of acceptability once i get all upgrades i listed, which is a bit sad imo ...

 

spartakos

Regem without waiting for spinels, at least the 2 t6 your enchant is good for both tanking and dps (aka chest, gloves). You are on Fire resist gear in armory but i hope your dps head has RED meta-gem. Also i think its better to go for 5 points rips. If you really miss the hit go get the badges dps neck. About sunwell i don't think there is an encounter that requires just 1 tank (let's hope final boss also) so no worries. Also is rawr (cat) giving you more dps than that?

 

Nathariel

Tagrat;

The [Elemental Sharpening Stone]s currently work in forms as all they do is increase crit rating.

As of 2.4