◊ Vaccine

Well thats good to know, similar to what I was getting.

It is the proc from [Dragonspine Trophy]

No I don't. I did use the Ogril'a rep trinket [Crystalforged Trinket] but replaced it with the DST I got a few weeks ago.

No I don't have RED, I use [Grimgrin Faceguard] with 3x 8 agi. I'll try using the T4 helm/shoulders next week, gloves are no problem as I have a spare T6 glove token in the bank so I'll turn it in for 2nd feral and gem for 10 agi if i can get it, 8 agi if i can't. For legs I use [Shady Dealer's Pantaloons]. Think its worth swapping in T6 legs with +15 stam and 40 stam/12 agi armour kit even though they aren't optimised for DPS for the 2 piece set bonus on mangle?



Regem to what, 8 agi? For rips I've found 4/5 point system more effective so you don't waste Combo points. Might try out the badge neck I guess, not missing much replacing [Haramad's Bargain]. I'm a bit dubious as to how accurate the Rawr cat model is. I get the feeling it undervalues armour penetration from the few tries I've had playing about with it. That said, Rawr gives me 1023 DPS. Changed to use the 2xT4/2xT6 suggestion and with the badge neck it goes up to 1060 so I might try that.

 

seminarca

Here are the updated armor values:

Thunderheart
Thunderheart Waistguard
342 Armor

Thunderheart Treads
542 Armor

Thunderheart Wristguards
281 Armor

Druid set
Harness of Carnal Instinct
807 Armor

Demontooth Shoulderpads
514 Armor

Gloves of the Forest Drifter
564 Armor

Leggings of the Immortal Beast
800 Armor

Mask of the Furry Hunter
643 Armor

Rogue set
Bladed Chaos Tunic
499 Armor

Shoulderpads of Vehemence
374 Armor

Shadowed Gauntlets of Paroxysm
312 Armor

Leggings of the Immortal Night
436 Armor

Duplicitous Guise
418 Armor

 

Inaiwae

As for T6 legs vs [Shady Dealer's Pantaloons], you have to consider both pieces you are going to replace. While pantaloons are remarkably better than tanking t6 legs, the difference between t6 gloves and Grips of Damnation is quite small. So if you take 2t6 in these slots, i think you are better of than if you take Grips and Pantaloons, even if they are tank-gemmed. You also save some bag space.

Question remains if energy savings from cheaper mangle dont get wasted, but i think they wont. Basically after shapeshift you get 40 energy for mangle, 5 remains, so after 2 energy ticks you have 45 which means you can shred one tick earlier.

Edit: crap, you dont do mangle after shapeshift, forget it. So it depends on when you do powershifting. If you are using 2t6, you should avoid powershifting after mangle.

Question to other druids - when do you powershift?

 

◊ Vaccine

I edited the Item.xml file from Rawr 11b to include the new armour values, if people don't know how/can't be bothered to do it themselves:

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service



Edit:

Okay had a bit of time to do some theory crafting. It isn't possible to hit the armour cap without Badge of Tenacity still. However we can get close:

[Mask of the Fury Hunter] (10 agi, RED)
[Pendant of Titans]
[Thunderheart Pauldrons] (5agi/5hit, 5agi/7stam)
[Slikk's Cloak of Placation]
[Harness of Carnal Instinct] (10 agi, 5agi/5hit, 5agi/7stam)
[Thunderheart Wristguards] (10 agi)
[Wildfury Greatstaff]
[Idol of Terror]
[Gloves of the Forest Drifter] (10 agi, 5agi/7stam)
[Thunderheart Waistguard] (10 agi)
[Leggings of the Immortal Beast] (10 agi, 10 agi, 5agi/7stam)
[Thunderheart Treads] (10 agi)
[Violet Signet of the Great Protector]
[Ring of the Stalwart Protector]
[Shadowmoon Insignia]
[Commendation of Kael'thas]



So selfbuffed (non imp-Motw only):
HP: 18264
Armour: 35090 (74.58%)
Dodge: 54%


Raid buffed: (imp pwf, imp motw, comm shout, GoA, BoK, Elixirs of agility/fort, 30 stam food):
HP: 23556
Armour: 35592 (288 armour short)
Dodge: 67.6%

With Idol of Terror proc on (most of the time) you are only 140 short of the armour cap and have 72.6% dodge and you can get another 40-50 armour using 20agi food instead of 30 stam food (as well as going up to 74.26% dodge).

If you were really a stickler for being armour capped you could always swap in [Gilded Thorium Cloak] for the extra armour it has and then you'd be 28 below the cap.

 

◊ Zeln

I've started powershifting 1-2 times a cycle, usually to set up the rip and then also the mangle. I'm unsure if its effective or if I'm screwing something else up, but it has brought up my dps some. I think a good deal of it was me though, for the longest time I could get over 1300 dps on Rage/Anetheron but then struggle to break 1200 on Teron (Last teron I got 1357 though). Generally I try to powershift whenever I don't have over 20 energy, or twice at the end of the cycle to quickly get back to shredding without waiting for the energy to build up. I really am trying to end the fight with no mana left. I really am probably doing powershifting very wrong, but it works for me.

What I have started noticing on ferals with high dps parses, is that typically their rip percentage of damage is dropping as low as 15% of their total damage.

 

• Falk

While I like the prospect of dodging almost everything, I don't know how feasible it will be even at that gear level. It seems Blizzard is at least partially aware of avoidance stacking and mobs like Sathrovarr seems designed to split tanks apart like ripe watermelon even if they have high avoidance.

Post-endgame TBC I think I'll probably keep my tanking gear with full stam.

Just my random 2cents.

 

◊ Vaccine

True but thats largely a gemming choice rather than gear. If you liked you could regem that stuff as +15 stams or +5agi/+7stams and leave the agi/hit ones for metagem requirements. It isn't like the HP is low on those builds either really, 23-24k is fairly nice considering a ~70% dodge rate.

 

◊ Merple

I haven't found a clear answer on this, so I'll just ask it. I'm gearing up my druid to tank Kara. I've got lots of access to the entry level tanking equip (Clefthoof, some PvP gear, some JC stuff), and given our guild's lack of tanks, I'm looking to gear for a MT role. (All our warriors are DPS. Casual Guilds :\)

My understanding is that I should stack armor and stamina. From a gemming perspective, would gemming [Solid Star of Elune] almost exclusively be the best bet?

I know I'll have aggro issues until I can start putting together some +hit/+expertise gear with bades. I'm willing to accomodate for that.

On Break?

 

◊ Vaccine

Yup that gem would be the best.

To be honest at that level you won't have aggro issues unless you're playing with people who are drastically outgeared for your level. It wasn't until T6 that I started having any aggro issues at all.

 

◊ Merple

Brilliant. That's pretty much all I needed to know.

On Break?

 

tagrat

imho there is no purpose to put so much agility on a tank set. I think i will use 5agi/7sta, and maybe even some 15sta on blue socket.
By the way i think [Belt of Natural Power](with 2*15sta) is far better than [Thunderheart Waistguard](i will surely use it on dps with a 10agi)

 

Tuhalu

There are a few things that could improve in the Teron parse that have nothing to do with you. I'm just going to state them despite the risk that I'm telling you lots of things you already know.
* Only 2 Shaman in the raid. The more bloodlusts and totems in the raid, the faster the kill is and the higher your DPS will be due to cooldown effects being operational for a longer proportion of the fight.
* 1 of your two Shaman is being largely wasted as far as dps goes by sitting in the mage/healer group. Mana Tide is not a good reason to keep all those beautiful dps totems away from your physical dps groups. If that Shaman had been in the Hunter group instead of the Tank, the effect of the totems would have greatly improved your DPS and that of the Hunters. If that Shaman had been Elemental spec, I could see a good reason to keep him there, but otherwise no.
* It seems like there are 2 players in the rogue group with Drums of Battle and only 1 player with them in the Hunter group (and he only used them once in the whole fight). One thing that has greatly improved my own guilds performance on Teron is that nearly every DPSer and some of the resto shaman too have levelled leatherworking so as to bring more Drums of Battle uptime into their groups. Each Drums of Battle fully used is as good as everyone in the party chugging 2 Haste Potions. Naturally, the less Drums of Battle brought to the group, the lower your personal DPS is going to be.
* Everyone else doing more DPS. Your parse has 2 players doing ~2000 dps or better. Looking at my own personal best Teron parse, I found 10 players doing ~2000 dps or better. Shrinking the kill time has a massive affect on personal DPS due to trinket use and consumable use.
* Curse of Elements. Teron Gorefiend had this on him and did not have Curse of Recklessness on him. This is a major raid dps loss and a major personal dps loss for you.
* Too many healers. Apparently, the "best" Teron DPS parses are done with 4 healers. But even taking 6 healers instead of 8 will improve raid DPS (and likely group buffs) by a significant amount.

Admittedly, a few of those points shrink down to "raid does more dps, your dps will be better". IMO, it was worth emphasizing how many ways more dps was not happening.

Given all of that, you are frankly doing very well to maintain 1210dps on the kill imo. In similar conditions (tank group, no drums, no shaman, no hunters, doing my own mangles, 1 bloodlust) I have pulled 1252 dps. In relatively optimal conditions (hunter group, drums, shaman, druid tank/mangler, no bloodlust), I have pulled 1777 dps. In both cases, Curse of Recklessness was up on the mob, which accounts for a significant portion of my DPS. To be honest, I'm pretty terrible at timing powershifts (I blame playing on an American server from Australia), so you definitely beat me there. Assuming equal gear and situation, you'd certainly out dps me.

In conclusion, I cannot see anything in your Teron WWS parse that indicates you are failing at doing feral dps. It really comes down to raid composition, raid dps and better use of warlock curses between your 1210 DPS and my 1777 DPS.

 

• Falk

23-24k with every single buff imaginable would still be ~21-22k on Sathrovarr, which is probably asking for quite a bit of trouble. That was my point. Yes, it's nice especially compared to what's available now, but there are mobs designed around totally negating avoidance in terms of potential spike.

 

dakalro

Considering the need for 2-3 tanks in most Sunwell fights and the way most of the bosses hit I'd say gemming for any agi on the tanking set would be asking for trouble. 70% dodge doesn't help when you can't dodge or it's magic. Some of those bosses are just brutal when it comes to spikes.

 

◊ Vaccine

I agree but I wanted to maintain the 4 piece T6 bonus so opted to use that slot and better things in head/chest/legs/hands.

 

Regen

Powershifting: Opt'd out of 2pct4 for 4pct6 (picked up an extra set). There were times when I went to shift and saw a proc go off and by then it was too late I had already shifted, and the only thing that pisses me off more is when a shred gets dodged and I hit powershift before noticing. Generally I only do it after shreding with sub 50 energy.

Tuhalu: While I agree on certain aspects such as wasting shaman (personally a strong believer in x3 resto, x1 enh, x1 elem), and keeping up curse of reck I find it extremely unreasonable to bring in extra DPS and subout healers for teron. Ideally I like to bring 7 while zoning in and have 7 while zoning out, no interuptions if possible.

Vaccine: Curious as to why you tried using grim faceguard, I'm fairly certain because of the meta t4 is better in comparison for any physical dps class.

 

Ghoselle

A while back someone asked about druid tanking while starting MH/BT. Our guild got our first kill of Azgalor last night. We did 3 tries with a warrior before we swapped a feral in to try. Both the warrior and feral were in mostly T5 instance gear.

Aggregate info:
Prot warrior
hits: 119
avg: 7734
max: 10344
avoid: 44.4%
Azgalor's physical dps: 1440

Feral tank
hits: 100
avg: 5714
max: 7816
avoid: 57.8%
Azgalor's physical dps: 1040

The max hit being so high for feral was because of silence blocking putting up demo roar and the feral not noticing. The warrior had about 3k more health than the feral raid buffed. (17.2k vs 20.2k, but he had an imp and the feral did not.)

Azgalor is easier for bears because he doesn't crush and does mostly pure physical damage.

Regardless, for the guy a bit back looking for numbers to take back to his guild as to why a feral tank, here is a set. I believe the warrior is 2T4+2T5 and best-in-slot-preT6 geared. The feral was 4T5+S2 pvp helm.

Ghoselle.
Feral Druid.