Vykromond

Raffy: Power Circles only work on the person placing the circle.

 

• Astrylian

All 4 trinkets are known (assuming there are only 4), and the caster one is the only one with a Power Circle type effect. And according to SK who got it tonight, it affects everyone who stands in it, raid wide (or it's bugged and doesn't currently, but will as of 2.4.2)

 

Vykromond

Hm. My mistake. The tooltip says "the caster."

 

TimWischmeier

I just read the comments again, and it even seems like everyone will get the buff, no matter whether he is in the raid, party, or even just the same faction.

 

Vykromond

I would doubt whether that's intended- it's game-warpingly overpowered.

 

Monkens

Hey chaps, Recently i've been DPS'ing in Hyjal and BT (First 4 in Hyjal, and 2 in BT) and it's been going well, (1-1.5k dps)

And now i'd like to get some tanking done, and I was wondering is my current gear level good enough for Hyjal/BT bosses? (Logged out in gear, so should be there)

I lack experience as a tank in 25 mans, so that's why I ask

I know the upgrades that would be nice for me, but if anybody has any suggestions that would be nice too incase I've missed out on things I can aim for.

 

Illkudos

If you use those PvP-Items solely for PvE, then I would recommend to get rid of the resilience-gems since you're way over the crit-immune cap with them. Same for the T4 chest. You could also use some more armor and dodge, but health seems okay for most T6-bosses imho. Over 20k health should be enough (always was for me) and the more armor and agility you can stack with it, the better you're off. If your healers aren't slacking, it should be doable with your gear

Try RAWR to check different gears / gemmings and see how your stats are affected. Keep in mind you don't really need more Crit-Reduction than 2.6% combined from defense- and resilience-ratings.

 

Monkens

Cheers, i'm hoping to get the tier 6 helm soon, so my resilience will drop by a hell of alot :P

 

mhr_78

i am logged out in my feral dps gear - so far i had trouble breaking 1.2k dps on simple stuff like gorefiend.
Last night i tried a few variants, and to be honest i am doing everything "right" actually still, i run crushingly low on dps for the gear i have.

1) i build combos with shred to 4-5 CP's
2) i wait for 81 energy
3) i rip, apply mangle and build combo points again

Last night was even so far that i had another feral keep mangle up and i mainly used shred and instead swapped idols before applying rip. (Raven godess idol while shredding - in mdps group, at 81 combos and 5! CP's usually -> swap to feral shadows for higher rip ticks, apply rip)

I usually raid with the following stats: 48% crit, 3.8k AP buffed sans Procs - an enhancement shaman once in a blue moon cause usually they toss all the other melee dps in the shaman group for WF than me.

Usually everything goes wonderfully well rotationwise, only when i have to combat ress or toss an innervate somewhere i loose a bit of DPS time. But why is the DPS so stagnating.

Especially when i see a former druid posting he did 1k-1.5k dps on the first four hyjal bosses i can just wonder if i forgot to train some spells.

Do Drums play such a large part that i should pick up Leatherworking to be a viable dps class?

Thanks for replies.

 

lairpie

Drums, chained between 4 people in the party are about like wearing almost a tier higher of gear. 80 haste, permanently up is a pretty huge boost to stats. Its obviously not as good for druids as it is for most melee and hunters, but its still pretty nice.

 

• Astrylian

You're also losing a ton of damage doing that idol swap. Why do people still try to do that? Please let whoever told you to swap idols mid-combat know to tell all their friends, to tell all their friends, etc, it's a *bad* idea. Friends don't let friends swap idols mid-combat. You lose half a white attack every time you swap idols. The biggest problem you've probably got is group composition. Getting an EnhSham is *huge*. As you get near the end of the game, being grouped with 3 BM hunters starts to catch up to being grouped with an EnhSham and a dpswarr, but it still doesn't quite make it.

 

lairpie

Wait, why would you lose any white damage as long as you hit the idol swap right after a white attack lands?

 

• Astrylian

If you can manage to weave watching the autoattack timer, accounting for latency, and timing it perfectly, into your rotation, you'd still only drop the average white swing time lost down to maybe 1/4, which is still worth way more than the idol value.

 

savernon

Idol of feral shadows gives you a massive 210 dmg boost anyways, which is what my T4/5 level gear white hits are completely unbuffed on a un-debuffed mob. Full raid buffs and debuffs would yield you closer to 350 or so white hits, which yield upwards of 800 crits. Accounting for crit rate and everything, you are maybe breaking even swapping idols if you can somehow manage to get the 1/4 white hit lost that astrylian says, which is highly unlikely. One small screwup nets you with a dps loss.

Instead, really push to get in that melee dps group with the warrior / enhance shaman. Get some WWS to help argue your point. If its the case that an extra rogue gets 100 DPS out of the melee group, and you get 150 DPS out of the group, you are better to put in, even if your actual dps is lower. Plus, the 5.94% crit, which for melee is pretty much a direct 5% dps increase and an increased UR uptime. The shaman and warrior would give you a flat ~600 AP bonus, and then when UR is up, another 420 AP for the levels you quote.

Edit: To give you another data point, I am usually grouped with a dps warrior and enhance shaman, and run about 3% crit less and 300 ap less than you, and I have been able to get a consistent 1.1k DPS on rage and anatheron.

Double edit: Also, some of the enchants / gear pieces you have are a bit less than optimal for pure DPS. I don't know if you use some of them as dual role pieces, like the tameless breeches, but that will obviously hurt you. Upgrading your weapon to even just the S2 weapon if you don't have badges to get the SotFL will net you a 165 AP and .4% crit upgrade, and you can eek out a bit more DPS if you got the Vindicator's Dragonhide bracers.

 

Vykromond

Hard to say what your DPS "should" be without knowing your group composition mhr_78, but you need to ditch that idol swap, as advised.

 

• sordee

I took a first gasp as well when I saw this. But then when you add it up, this ring is way over budgeted.
I believe that was the designers intent. I.e. the OP ring from the last raid in WotLK that is borderline legendary for all tank classes.

 

• Astrylian

Doesn't look overbudget to me... For me, ignoring the threat from expertise, it's still inferior to Ring of the Stalwart Protector and Violet Signet of the Great Protector. With the threat, it's slightly above Violet Signet. (That's all assuming your can use all the armor on them all). The one nice thing is that it's got a good chunk of Def, which makes it open up other options while remaining uncrittable, so I wouldn't be surprised if the best tank set did include it.

 

• sordee

My claim on overbudgeted is only because it is the only tanking ring with 5 stats.
Most are only 3 stats, with the Exalted Hyjal ring being 3 with a proc.

Rings - Items - World of Warcraft

Correction, one ring with 4 stats but with low stats for all:
[Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen]

So... even taking away one stat (depending on your tank type), its still the hands down best ring.
I.e. compare:
-308 Armor, 48 Stam, 32 defense, 22 expertise
-392 Armor, 37 Stam, 19 defense.
-392 Armor, 45 Stam, 28 Dodge rating.

 

Kaeleb

My best guess is, that the ring was designed to be of use for multiple classes and feels like an upgraded version of [Band of Determination]. Far too many tanking rings are either warrior (more warrior actually as there are very few rings with armor, prot palas usually use warrior rings) OR druid, so yeah i for one like the idea that its useable for all tanking classes.
This ring finally is a real upgrade to [Violet Signet of the Great Protector] (at least overall if not migration wise) and is as stated above "hands down best ring".
Reading the lootscreenshot while breakfast was also not the very best thing for my keyboard as i went "wtf need" with coffee

 

raffy

I believe I said the macro I posted was good for most stuff EXCEPT raid DPS. I also said swapping weapons and idols resets your swing timer. And that I would do testing to try to swap the idol smartly by checking Quartz's swing timer.

Still, the idol swap is great, as I said, if you're in not in a pure-dps situation. It also can be used for other things, like safety swapping to a dps weapon when going Cat, and a tank weapon when going Bear.

Additionally, idol swapping as Resto or Boomkin works great with no penalties.

/run GCDCheck()
/cast Mangle (Cat)()
/run if GetNumRaidMembers()==0 then GCDEquip("Idol of Terror") end

/run GCDCheck()
/cast Mangle (Cat)()
/run if GetNumRaidMembers()==0 then GCDEquip("Everbloom Idol") end

 

• Daboran

I know Warriors don't usually value armor that much, but it seems pretty much designed for Warrior Brutallus tanking assuming they don't intend to remove the Sunwell Buff any time soon.

Brutallus affects me in bad ways, I had a weird dream last night that a new Buff appeared on datamines "Sunwell Buff Medium - reduces your enemy's chance to dodge by 10% and increases hit by 3%"

 

Deltronzero

I've been gone for 5 weeks due to work, not raiding as a result. All I can do is read forums and browse WWS/armory to feel connected, until I'm back on the scene in about 10 days. But I was looking at a lot of people's choices on how to use the last 5-6 talent points in the obvious variations of 0/48-9/12-13.

Assuming you're speccing purely for PvE (not necessarily true) how do justify the tie-breaker choices between Nurturing Instinct, Primal Tenacity, Imp LotP and Improved Bash/Pounce? I'm wondering more out of curiosity, since theyre ultimately rather trivial and situational choices. I specced out of LOTP for NI when they changed NI, but honestly doubt I'll find myself in cat form in Sunwell very often (at least for a while).

-how do you justify the stun talent? only thing I can possibly think of is if Muru requires a lot of add control (I'm speculating and know nothing substantial about the fight) and you wanna Bash one to get threat on others before going back to it.

-how do you justify Imp LOTP? From the perspective of reliable safety net... it doesn't seem to be one and I imagine if your raid/you tanking are low enough on health that LOTP is saving the day, you've got bigger problems. Seems like a once-in-a-lifetime random chance to actually have it save someone's life. Maybe I'm underestimating it though.

-How many boss effects in Sunwell can you count that Primal Tencity effects? Sathrovarr... does it work on either of the Twins (guessing no on confounding, what about conflag?)

-both NI and maxing Shapeshifter in the resto tree are functionally irrelevant if you're not ever gonna DPS... so is this the driving factor for most of you?


Just wondering about people's reasoning in light of Sunwell, and again, assuming a PvE-only spec. I seem to find every possible permutation of points spent on the talents I listed.


edit- shouldn't matter if everything's going down correctly, but does PT effect Shadowfury from the Sacrolash Shadow Images?

 

Kaeleb

Daboran
Yes, but out Warriors are already complaining about the loss of block value on sunwell plate gear, the fits there if the still make use of the expertise (since they already got a lot on the new T6 pieces).

Deltronzero
I would never ever use Brutal Impact in a PvE Spec. Never needed it or found much use for it.
Primal Tenacity does not work on confounding blow or conflag (as far as i know at least), but it does work quite well for the trash gauntlet (MindControl and people mass fearing etc).
Imp LOTP is a group support must where NI will make it easier to heal you while you DPS. 2 points NI vs 2 points NS easier healing vs a bit more DPS due to powershifting.
The overall question is "Where else would you put your points if you value the talents diffrently?".

Standard PvE Spec , Bear Only Spec (used for the First Twin tries - wanted imp demoshout)

 

Deltronzero

Brutal impact- I agree, but a lot of people seem to have it. I was wondering if there was some use I hadn't thought of, or whether they choose it for pvp/ganking.

Imp demo roar- I left that one out because usually I'd imagine there'll be a warrior to stack a better one, but I guess it depends on your raid make-up

The one I was most curious about was Imp LOTP, which almost everyone seems to have and you call it a "group support must"... it really just seems lackluster to me. How do you arrive at the conclusion that its so valuable? Personally, I wish it did something more like that idol from the flight form chain.

edit: Given my skepticism about LotP, my current spec is the same as yours with the 2 points in imp lotp filling out shapeshifter. This could all very well be moot, because my suspicion is that I won't be in cat form in the near future, so I'd drop NI for ILotP. But in the future/general curiosity, I wanted to see the minute details that convince people to pick what they do.