Feral Druid Megathread - Page 148

Tinweasele · 05/15/08, 4:27 PM

So is the general consensus a 15 energy threshold on mangle and shred a good number? Also i dont know if anyone has put any thought into applying the double mangle theories to work on other classes? basically any dot meeting a scalar buff MIGHT have the same behavior.

Maeltne · 05/15/08, 4:38 PM

STATUS: Just recently added the GetComboPoints() check, not tested yet. Also reduced the Shred threshold to 16 energy.

Originally Posted by Tinweasele

So is the general consensus a 15 energy threshold on mangle and shred a good number? Also i dont know if anyone has put any thought into applying the double mangle theories to work on other classes? basically any dot meeting a scalar buff MIGHT have the same behavior.

Basically 20 less than the energy cost of any ability you want to use.
Mangle at 15 (assuming 2t6, 20 otherwise)
Shred at 18 (assuming talented) Note: 22 would be ideal, but mana usage is probably too high
Rip at 10

Here are Mine:

Special thanks to Malthoreniel (I *never* would have thought of this myself) I've incorporated the following macros:

/run local c=DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME if pws then pws=false c:AddMessage("Powershift disabled",1,1,1) else pws=true c:AddMessage("Powershift enabled",1,1,1)end

This will turn on/off the powershifing component of the following attacks. Turn on to improve raid DPS, turn off for long farming sessions, etc.

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>14 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Mangle (Cat)()
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 15, and use a Haste Potion (if Alt is held). Otherwise it will simply Mangle

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>15 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or GetComboPoints()>3 or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Shred
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 18, and use a Haste Potion (if Alt is held). Otherwise it will simply Shred.

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>9 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/use 13
/use 14
/cast [form] Rip
/stopmacro [form]
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 10. Otherwise it will simply Rip. In either case it will activate both of your trinkets.

I think I'm going to *HAVE* to test these with a Wolfshead Helm.... Just to see...

Now if you had to choose between any 2 of Kings, AP, or Wisdom ... which would it be?

Edit: Switched 22->18 for shred, based on feedback, and fixed a syntax error '<' to '>', the <> change also necessitates the removal of 1 from each of the thresholds to avoid an off by one error.

Edit: Fixed Haste Potion item ID

lairpie · 05/15/08, 4:40 PM

You mean rip in your last line there, not shred.

Valerian · 05/15/08, 5:08 PM

A threshold of 22 for shred will mean you will powershift after almost every shred.

40 energy gain from shift
20 tick
-42 for shred
= 18 < 22 therefore powershift and repeat.

Unless you get a 2T4 proc or OOC proc (which would delay the powershift by one attack), you're going to run through mana extremely fast if the thresholds are that high wont you?

Maeltne · 05/15/08, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Valerian

A threshold of 22 for shred will mean you will powershift after almost every shred.

40 energy gain from shift
20 tick
-42 for shred
= 18 < 22 therefore powershift and repeat.

Unless you get a 2T4 proc or OOC proc (which would delay the powershift by one attack), you're going to run through mana extremely fast if the thresholds are that high wont you?

Like Astrylian said, I'll give it a shot and see how the mana works. If I run out I'll probably set Shred threshold to <18, based on your math above.

Threshold at 22:
40
60
shred
18
powershift

Yields 1 shred per tick, and 1 powershift/tick. Probably too mana intensive, but requires testing.

Thresold at 18:
40
60
shred
18
38
58
shred
16
powershift

Yields 1 shred per 1.5 ticks, and 1 powershift per 3 ticks. Sweet spot? Maybe. Requires testing

Threshold at 16:
40
60
shred
18
38
58
shred
16
36
56
shred
14
powershift

Yields 1 shred per 1.67 ticks, and 1 powershift per 5 ticks.

Threshold at 14
40
60
shred
18
38
58
shred
16
36
56
shred
14
34
54
shred
12
powershift

yields 1 shred per 1.75 ticks and 1 powershift per 7 ticks.

Abstracting:
Set threshold at 20-2x

Total ticks until cycle repeats: 1 + 2x
Total shreds until cycle repeats: 1 + x

Total ticks per shred: (1+2x)/(1+x)

Chart:

X			0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
Threshold		20	18	16	14	12	10	8	6	4	2
Ticks to Repeat		1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19
Shreds to Repeat	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Shreds/Tick		1	1.5	1.67	1.75	1.8	1.83	1.86	1.875	1.89	1.9
Mana./Shred		829	414.5	276.3	207.25	165.8	138.17	118.43	103.6	92.1	82.9

• Astrylian · 05/15/08, 5:18 PM

Yah, after Allev pointed that out, I switched my shred to <18. (Still haven't gotten a chance to try it either way in raid, but expect <18 to be superior)

I'm going to see if this will make Wolfshead viable... Only question is whether I want to lose 2T4 or 4T6... Hmm...

Maeltne · 05/15/08, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Yah, after Allev pointed that out, I switched my shred to <18. (Still haven't gotten a chance to try it either way in raid, but expect <18 to be superior)

I'm going to see if this will make Wolfshead viable... Only question is whether I want to lose 2T4 or 4T6... Hmm...

Yeah, looking at the chart I made, it looks like 18 is going to be the sweet spot. 16 for Long fights.

I'm guessing that if you have to choose between 2t4 and 4t6 it won't be viable, but if you had them all ... it might be ...

Tinweasele · 05/15/08, 5:44 PM

So i guess the extreme situation is using powershift as a means to power your shreds early on in your rotation(using wolfshead) should take 5-7 seconds at MOST (steady rotation) to build up your 4-5 combo points, leaving your 2t4 and ooc procs to give "free" shreds and you would spend the rest of your rotation just keeping from overloading on energy. In otherwords OOC and 2t4 would give "bonus" shreds if they occur late in your 12 second cycle and "free" shreds earlier on ( no powershift). Now obviously doing this would exact a MUCH higher mana cost, but if the gains were high enough would it be worth it to replace haste pots every cooldown(~25-30dps) with mana pots every cooldown (100mp5) to offset the INSANE powershifting costs (~1000-1200 mp every 12 sec).

/edit forgot to mention that having a steady rotation early should make getting the double mangle EVERY 12 seconds on the mark easier.

raffy · 05/15/08, 6:54 PM

I took a few seconds to wrap this into a tiny addon (because of the 255 character limit on macros) so some more advanced conditionals (like if target exists, if in combat) could be tested and the macro syntax could be simplified.

http://oldschoolwow.com/AutoPowershift.zip

This addon provides two functions:
-- toggleps(): enable/disable powershifting
-- ps(en): cancel form if powershift is enabled and energy is under the threshold

Toggle:
/run toggleps()

Mangle:
/run ps(18)
/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

Valerian · 05/15/08, 6:59 PM

Uh Maeltne the macros you posted dont seem to be working for me. I had to change the the < to a > sign before it worked.

Odas · 05/15/08, 7:04 PM

This new macro should be able to provide safe potions for bear form, correct? Could someone post what one of those macros would look like? I'm not entirely sure of the syntax of the macros and I'm just fiddling at the moment.

Edit: Does the macro try to powershift if you are stunned or otherwise incapacitated or does it only check if you are on gcd?

seminarca · 05/15/08, 7:06 PM

Keep in mind that unless you're hit capped AND expertise capped, you will get the occassional dodge/miss, which will refund partial energy on Mangle/Shred and change the rotation.

Maeltne · 05/15/08, 7:09 PM

I blame Astrylian :P.

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Change

UnitMana('player')<pws

to

UnitMana('player')<15

or whatever number you want, per ability.

Yeah '<' makes sense intuitively, but the negative logic being used in the short circuit evalution of the statement, actually requires the reverse.

This also necessitates the removal from 1 for each of the thresholds.

I've updated the macros.

Thanks!

Rainman5419 · 05/15/08, 7:11 PM

Not to be ungrateful raffy(these macros and addons are great) ,but couldn't you and Zimira work together if your going to make an addon for the community? I've been playing around with his addon, and I'm going to try yours for Felmyst tonite.
To add a Haste pot into yours I'd simple add the potion line between the 2 lines in the bottom macro correct?

I was thinking about the double mangle idea, but it's much simpler now that Odas has laid it out for us. Great work guys!

Edit: I know this might be a bit much, but this could also be tied to an overall feral addon with the powershifting macro and the bear potion macro devised quite a few pages back.

Maeltne · 05/15/08, 7:18 PM

Originally Posted by Odas

This new macro should be able to provide safe potions for bear form, correct? Could someone post what one of those macros would look like? I'm not entirely sure of the syntax of the macros and I'm just fiddling at the moment.

Edit: Does the macro try to powershift if you are stunned or otherwise incapacitated or does it only check if you are on gcd?

Old news?

See the third post, or somewhere around page 108-109 for when this came out. Here is what I use (note: I've added improvement's based on tricks I've learned from the new cat form macros):

/y BearStand!
/use 13
/use 14
/run local b="Dire Bear Form";b=GetSpellCoolDown(b)>0 or not IsUsableSpell(b) or CancelPlayerBuff(b) end;
/stopmacro [form]
/use Master Healthstone
/use item:34440
/use item:33934
/use item:32947
/use item:22829
/cast Dire Bear Form

251 characters! I even got to throw my yell back in

Potion Priority is:
1) Mad Alchemist's
2) Crystal Healing Potion
3) Auchenai Healing Potion
4) Super Healing Potion

As to the powershift when stunned etc, there is an 'IsUseableSpell()' check, so I assume that that check would fail if the spell isn't usable (i.e. stunned), I haven't tested that however. If so then I think I should add that check to the above macro also.

Edit: Updated Bearstand. I know that on an accidental pull while rezzing we died because I tried to bearstand without enough mana.

• Astrylian · 05/15/08, 7:36 PM

IsUsableSpell() does not check for being stunned. But an addon could be written to watch your debuffs, and every time one with "stunned" in the description was applied, set some variable to 1, then when it fades, set it to nil. Then you could check that in macros.

raffy · 05/15/08, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rainman5419

Not to be ungrateful raffy(these macros and addons are great) ,but couldn't you and Zimira work together if your going to make an addon for the community? I've been playing around with his addon, and I'm going to try yours for Felmyst tonite.
To add a Haste pot into yours I'd simple add the potion line between the 2 lines in the bottom macro correct?

I was thinking about the double mangle idea, but it's much simpler now that Odas has laid it out for us. Great work guys!

Edit: I know this might be a bit much, but this could also be tied to an overall feral addon with the powershifting macro and the bear potion macro devised quite a few pages back.

I updated the addon a few seconds ago (made it so it prints the lost energy in the default chat window).

Yes, to use a Haste Potion with the macro:

/run ps(18)
/use [noform] Haste Potion
/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

I'll combine these in a few minutes.

Odas · 05/15/08, 7:41 PM

/run local b="Dire Bear Form";b=GetSpellCoolDown(b)>0 or not IsUsableSpell(b) or CancelPlayerBuff(b) end;
/stopmacro [form]
/use Minor Mana Potion
/cast Dire Bear Form

I tried using the above macro to test out, and it didnt work. It doesn't seem to use the potion at all. Considering that potions normally switch you out of forms I find that strange.

I assume that the one you posted, Maeltne, activates both items in your trinket slots, then tries to use the first potion available, then shift back to bear?

kalbear · 05/15/08, 7:41 PM

What are the ramifications of powershifting on white attacks? Does powershifting reset the swing timer? I know this isn't a critical issue, but at the same time if you're powershifting every 2 shreds, this may be something of a concern for overall DPS loss.

• Astrylian · 05/15/08, 7:51 PM

I tested this (though not extensively, others feel free to try it too)...
I'm using Blizz's combat log, so no ms on the timestamps, but... Killing an ogre with white attacks, from 100% to 0%, there was 1sec between every attack. I then killed another one, with white attacks only, but powershifting mostly non-stop, sometimes waiting half a sec or so, so that it wasn't always 1sec apart... It still kept white attacks every 1sec from 100% to 0%. So I'd say no, doesn't reset your swing timer. Joy!

Yilfin · 05/15/08, 9:46 PM

It will be very cool if at the end (if there will be one) of this very interesting discussion about this new powershift macro, a summary can be made, to explain from A to Z how to use it.

Also, i think that the whole feral community will strongly support the creation of a long-awaited and needed "feral addon", that will have all the separate features that we need, in one (auto-powershifting with clear parameters to change according to the fight, our preferences, a little window with the duration of our debuffs like mangle or ff, without using heavy frames, bear and cat pot macros, maybe other functions).

Anyway, thanks a lot for all these fascinating ideas that will surely help us to improve our dps in raid

Valerian · 05/15/08, 11:01 PM

Finished an evening of raiding on council and illidan. I dont know if I'm doing something wrong or what but I found it far easier to use my standard powershifting technique than these macros. The only modification was to add the energy checking condition so that I didnt shift right after a 2T4 tick.

I find just watching my GCD bar along with my energy ticker bar allowed more controlled powershifting and less "wasted" shifits (shifts at around 18 energy are pretty rough on the mana for a pretty minor gain). I manged a few double rips but it was quite hard to do on the pally in council though Illidan was somewhat easier.

raffy · 05/15/08, 11:04 PM

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKit.zip

An Ace mod that combines both AutoPowershift functions and the GCD-safe Cancelform functions.

-- ps(): cancels form if energy is under threshold and everything else is good
-- cf(formIndex): cancels the form (or any form if non specified) if not inside the gcd (1 = bear, 3 = cat)

Toggle Automatic Powershifting:
/feralkit ps toggle

Set Energy Threshold:
/feralkit ps energy 18

"Mangle" Macro
/run ps()
/use [noform] Haste Potion
/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

"Shred" Macro
/run ps()
/use [noform] Haste Potion
/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

Chat Frame:
FeralKit: 8 energy wasted.
FeralKit: 4 energy wasted.
FeralKit: 12 energy wasted over 2 shifts (6.0 energy per shift). (<-- Does this when combat ends.)
(I didn't add a setting yet to turn this on/off)

"HS" Macro
#showtooltip Master Healthstone
/use [noform] Master Healthstone
/stopmacro [noform]
/run cf(1)
/use [noform] Master Healthstone
/cast [noform] Dire Bear Form
/run cf(3)
/use [noform] Master Healthstone
/cast [noform] Cat Form

"Bearstand" Macro (from page 1)
/run cf()
/stopmacro [form]
/use Master Healthstone
/use item:32905
/use item:32784
/use item:28100
/use item:22829
/cast Dire Bear Form

Edit: gonna update again after raiding tonight. I'll move the energy threshold into the mod as a preference along with a way to turn on/off the debug statements (and maybe output to scrolling combat text or something...)

Edit: added energy preference