Feral Megathread - Page 152

Garanthir · 05/19/08, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Mihir

I disagree, on Hyjal and Black Temple trash, being crit immune isnt important at all. I almost never tanked that trash with crit immunity, and I only die if healers die first

In Sunwell the situation changes, since the trash there hits significantly harder and you lose 25% avoidance due to the radiance.

Keep in mind that for the most part "trash" is not level 73, so the required stats to reach crit immunity are lower. In addition obviously you don't have to be in full tank gear for a lot of trash depending on your role, gear level, farm content or not, etc. I'm not 100% clear what the original poster is asking, should you be crit immune while tanking a boss? If that's the question then yeah. Use Rawr to arrange your gear to get there or at least define what you need so you can pick it up.

Illkudos · 05/19/08, 2:51 PM

This reminds me of the time when we first downed Vashj and Kael'thas a long time ago when they weren't nerfed yet, both times our MT died because of healers slacking when going into the last phase, so I tanked with my DPS-Gear. For Kael I was partly in some pvp-stuff for handling the axe before, but surely wasn't over the crit-immunity cap for a boss.

With what our RL called "Patchwerk-healingstyle", we mastered them both for the 1st time, with a kitty-geared feral for the last 20% or so and a bit of panic on voice

Thats when I really felt like a powerfull hybrid, good times ..

Just to say, it's possible to tank in an emergency situation without reaching the cap and not die instantly, but really not wantable if you CAN be crit by a boss and there aren't like 5 healers overhealing you like hell. Also possibly won't work with hard-hitters, Vashj and Kael really didn't melee that hard anyways.

savernon · 05/19/08, 2:55 PM

Regarding the past couple of posters who talked about lower defense requirements for non boss level mobs, remember that even a level 71 still has a 5.2% chance to crit you. This amounts to 16 resilience, 24 defense rating, or some combo in between.

coredumperror · 05/19/08, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by savernon

Regarding the past couple of posters who talked about lower defense requirements for non boss level mobs, remember that even a level 71 still has a 5.2% chance to crit you. This amounts to 16 resilience, 24 defense rating, or some combo in between.

You're math's a little off. Even with SotF, you still need 2.2% crit reduction to be crit immune against lvl 71s. That's 87 resil or 130 defense rating.

Mijae · 05/19/08, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by coredumperror

You're math's a little off. Even with SotF, you still need 2.2% crit reduction to be crit immune against lvl 71s. That's 87 resil or 130 defense rating.

It's a bit odd to think this way, but he is correct in how much of each value you can remove to reach 2.2%.

Def: 154 (L73) - 130 (L71) = 24
Res: 103 (L73) - 87 (L71) = 16

It's not really wise to think backwards like this though, because it's only valid if you are at exactly 2.6% (not to mention confusing).

seminarca · 05/19/08, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

I'm not convinced myself though, I'll be losing about 4k hp for 8% dodge which doesn't seem a great trade off to me and given how fast they hit can hit the odd chance I don't dodge will almost certainly drop me.

Edit: Also with them being level 71 has anyone thought about rejigging their gear lowering their armour and defense in exchange for more agility orientated pieces? I've been putting together a modification of my normal set to try it.

The sockets in the 5 armor pieces you're likely replacing amount to 8 (helm 1, shoulders 2, chest 3, gloves 1, pants 1), which is 64 Agi with Rubies and 80 with Spinels .. that's a difference of ~1.23% dodge after SotF and Kings. So if the alchemy lab is open on your server and you've got the badges, may as well.

And though I've not seen the M'uru encounter myself, I should be able to say that lowering armor/defense if level 71 mobs are the only thing you will be tanking is a no brainer. Enough defense to hit 2.2% crit reduction is a must of course, and the armor cap vs level 71 mobs is 33,075 which gives you good leeway in the trinket (Commendation or Pocketwatch instead of Badge) and possibly weapon slots (though a non-armor staff is probably too much of a loss).

savernon · 05/19/08, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by coredumperror

You're math's a little off. Even with SotF, you still need 2.2% crit reduction to be crit immune against lvl 71s. That's 87 resil or 130 defense rating.

Yeah, as someone else posted out, I meant that was how much you could take off, not how much you needed to keep on.

On the super rip note, I am able to consistently get it on the Blasted Lands mobs. Using DebuffFilter, I found it trivially easy to apply Mangle, not Mangle (Cat), to a mob. Then I would rip right before the debuff fell off, and immediatly apply Mangle (Cat). I need to work on it to get it down to a nice rotation so that most, if not all, rips are double buffed and the standard dps cycle is preserved.

• Astrylian · 05/19/08, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by savernon

On the super rip note, I am able to consistently get it on the Blasted Lands mobs. Using DebuffFilter, I found it trivially easy to apply Mangle, not Mangle (Cat), to a mob. Then I would rip right before the debuff fell off, and immediatly apply Mangle (Cat). I need to work on it to get it down to a nice rotation so that most, if not all, rips are double buffed and the standard dps cycle is preserved.

Not gunna work that way. Getting doublemangled rips through Mangle (not Mangle (Cat)) means alternating double and zero mangled rips, which is only a tiny tiny dps gain overall.

savernon · 05/20/08, 12:13 AM

Is there any reason you wont be able to get doublemangled rips through both Mangle and Mangle (Cat)?

• Astrylian · 05/20/08, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by savernon

Is there any reason you wont be able to get doublemangled rips through both Mangle and Mangle (Cat)?

You can, every other time. To do that, you need to alternate them, and they alternate between double and zero ripped.

angi · 05/20/08, 4:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

M'uru Post - Abilities and shit left out so as not to spoil/leak fight, purely gearing discussion

Any druids have experience to share on tanking the humanoid adds on M'uru? We put in about twenty hours now and feel we have hit a brick wall mainly due to me exploding at some point when tanking 2 or 3 adds.

We're running 6 healers, 4 tanks and the warrior tanking the other humanoids is having no such issues.

We have tried using sheep but found it to be tough when our melee couldn't take advantage of their splash. When not using sheep and tanking all 3 we do far more DPS (the DW warglaive warrior does 400 extra dps alone) and have them down far more promptly but I run the constant risk of exploding whilst tanking them.

In our BB Sunwell thread Nopher (Last Resort) swears by gemming max agility for this which I raised to the officers but it got rejected out of hand. We don't have enough spinels for DPS classes and they weren't willing to spend them on a tank. That was after our 2nd night on them I believe. 10 hours later I've now had words with the officers again and whilst they still won't spare Spinels they did pay from the gbank for an almost complete set of [Delicate Living Ruby] which I'm going to put in a spare set of T6 tokens I had in the bank and try that out.

I'm not convinced myself though, I'll be losing about 4k hp for 8% dodge which doesn't seem a great trade off to me and given how fast they hit can hit the odd chance I don't dodge will almost certainly drop me.

Edit: Also with them being level 71 has anyone thought about rejigging their gear lowering their armour and defense in exchange for more agility orientated pieces? I've been putting together a modification of my normal set to try it.

Is sunwell radiance working on these adds? If not, gemming purely agi is a non brainer i think, going from 60 to 68% dodge is a huge reduction in incoming damage (20%).

◊ Vaccine · 05/20/08, 5:16 AM

Originally Posted by angi

Is sunwell radiance working on these adds? If not, gemming purely agi is a non brainer i think, going from 60 to 68% dodge is a huge reduction in incoming damage (20%).

I'm not sure to be honest. They miss very low % for a DW mob, 3% average miss on my WWS. But I dodge around 40% which is slightly under my dodge but certainly not to the levels of Sunwell Radiance so I'd have to say no they aren't affected by Sunwell Radiance but they also don't seem to have any DW miss penalty.

Over an entire 4 hour night of tries I had a 41% dodge rate (which is about what I have) and they had a 5% miss rate.

angi · 05/20/08, 7:46 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

I'm not sure to be honest. They miss very low % for a DW mob, 3% average miss on my WWS. But I dodge around 40% which is slightly under my dodge but certainly not to the levels of Sunwell Radiance so I'd have to say no they aren't affected by Sunwell Radiance but they also don't seem to have any DW miss penalty.

Over an entire 4 hour night of tries I had a 41% dodge rate (which is about what I have) and they had a 5% miss rate.

Thats relative low amount of dodge, you should get GoA and socket 10 AGI, i think 60-65% dodge is what we can reach without much problems. I think this helps also in P2. We are currently working on twins, so i cant really check this for myself, but i socketed all new T6 items with agi because of the dual use of boots/belt/wrist in damage and tank gear. I found that this is also usefull on Brutallus where 23k HP was enough to survive the biggest burst. Perhaps it is a good idea to get back to Badge/Moroes Combination of trinkets, to have a near unhittable state with both trinkets active.

◊ Vaccine · 05/20/08, 9:10 AM

Well I just got slapped with an infraction for the current discussion on add tanking on M'uru so I guess even as little info as was given is deemed too much in line with gurgs NDA post. I suggest we come back to this discussion in a few weeks when it is lifted.

coldbear · 05/20/08, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Maeltne

STATUS: Just recently added the GetComboPoints() check, not tested yet. Also reduced the Shred threshold to 16 energy.

Basically 20 less than the energy cost of any ability you want to use.
Mangle at 15 (assuming 2t6, 20 otherwise)
Shred at 18 (assuming talented) Note: 22 would be ideal, but mana usage is probably too high
Rip at 10

Here are Mine:

Special thanks to Malthoreniel (I *never* would have thought of this myself) I've incorporated the following macros:

/run local c=DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME if pws then pws=false c:AddMessage("Powershift disabled",1,1,1) else pws=true c:AddMessage("Powershift enabled",1,1,1)end

This will turn on/off the powershifing component of the following attacks. Turn on to improve raid DPS, turn off for long farming sessions, etc.

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>14 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Mangle (Cat)()
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 15, and use a Haste Potion (if Alt is held). Otherwise it will simply Mangle

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>15 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or GetComboPoints()>3 or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Shred
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 18, and use a Haste Potion (if Alt is held). Otherwise it will simply Shred.

#showtooltip
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>9 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/use 13
/use 14
/cast [form] Rip
/stopmacro [form]
/cast Cat Form

This will powershift, if possible/enabled and your energy is less than 10. Otherwise it will simply Rip. In either case it will activate both of your trinkets.

I think I'm going to *HAVE* to test these with a Wolfshead Helm.... Just to see...

Now if you had to choose between any 2 of Kings, AP, or Wisdom ... which would it be?

Edit: Switched 22->18 for shred, based on feedback, and fixed a syntax error '<' to '>', the <> change also necessitates the removal of 1 from each of the thresholds to avoid an off by one error.

Edit: Fixed Haste Potion item ID

1. Forgive me for asking what is no doubt obvious to many else, but shouldn't [alt] be [modifier:alt]?

2. Was using these macros extensively last night in ZA, did not powershift as much as I would have liked - I'm going on the assumption I should only hit the macro key again as soon as the GCD is over, and that spamming it was the reason why I accidentally drank all my Haste Potions without ever intentionally doing so, and the reason why I shifted out and stayed in caster form a few times.

3. I added the line /startattack at the end of the Mangle and Shred macros (macroes?) but figure that did nothing since it was below the /stopmacro line. Is that correct or do macros still execute all lines at once? Should the /startattack line be right below '#showtooltip'?

Deninkle · 05/20/08, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

You can, every other time. To do that, you need to alternate them, and they alternate between double and zero ripped.

If you have a feral tank, is it possible to get the double rips if you're dpsing?

edit:

Originally Posted by coldbear

1. Forgive me for asking what is no doubt obvious to many else, but shouldn't [alt] be [modifier:alt]?

2. Was using these macros extensively last night in ZA, did not powershift as much as I would have liked - I'm going on the assumption I should only hit the macro key again as soon as the GCD is over, and that spamming it was the reason why I accidentally drank all my Haste Potions without ever intentionally doing so, and the reason why I shifted out and stayed in caster form a few times.

3. I added the line /startattack at the end of the Mangle and Shred macros (macroes?) but figure that did nothing since it was below the /stopmacro line. Is that correct or do macros still execute all lines at once? Should the /startattack line be right below '#showtooltip'?

1. Yes, it needs to be [mod:alt] otherwise it'll throw up an unknown macro option error.. and run it even when alt is not pressed.

2. Being trapped in caster form appears to be a problem experienced by a few people. They are talking about it in here. As to why you drank all of your haste potions, it may have been due to not putting in [mod:alt], but if you did, I'm not sure.

3. If you put something after /stopmacro [form] it'll only run if you are not in a form. So if you don't powershift, it wouldn't start attacking. You start auto attacking after using a special, I think... so you shouldn't have to use it after /cast Shred (or whatever you use). If you want to be particularly cautious /startattack might be useful after the shift.

Maeltne · 05/20/08, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mandrus

I can't anwser all of your questions, but [Wildfury Greatstaff], is actualy better than [Pillar of Ferocity], when you consider avoidance, and overall mitigation.

This is what I thought also. When I ask Rawr however it tells me otherwise. Especially with the Sunwell Radiance 'debuff'.

bluenote · 05/20/08, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by Yilfin

I've considered to use the elixir of ironskin, 30 resi is huge, and will allow me to switch [A'dal's Signet of Defense] for [Ring of the Stalwart Protector] and still be crit immune, but i'm not enchanted by the perspective to have to use an elixir each time that i'll do a boss to be crit immune, and also loose 250 health. If there are other advises, opinions, concerning my problem, don't hesitate to post them, thanks in advance

Yilfin, you may want to try Rawr with your gear setup and possibly enchant your cloak with + def, if you are lacking the small gap?

Panzerkin · 05/20/08, 1:30 PM

Quick question about Mark of Kaz'rogal. Will it target and mana drain a druid in cat or bear form? From the way the debuff is written I would assume it does, but I have not seen anything that confirms or denies my thought. Basically I am wondering if I should be stocking up mana pots for tonight's SC Hyjal run. Though really since I don't use the mana for anything other than shifting perhaps my raid buffed regen will be sufficient to prevent there being any major problem unless the fight lasts way too long anyway.

I attempted to search Kaz'rogal (did see anything that answered the question) and Mark of Kaz'rogal (received no results at all). Thanks ahead of time for your help.

EDIT: Spelling

bluenote · 05/20/08, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Panzerkin

Quick question about Mark of Kaz'rogal. Will it target and mana drain a druid in cat or bear form? From the way the debuff is written I would assume it does, but I have not seen anything that confirms or denies my thought. Basically I am wondering if I should be stocking up mana pots for tonight's SC Hyjal run. Though really since I don't use the mana for anything other than shifting perhaps my raid buffed regen will be sufficient to prevent their being any major problem unless the fight lasts way too long anyway.

I attempted to search Kaz'rogal (did see anything that answered the question) and Mark of Kaz'rogal (received no results at all). Thanks ahead of time for your help.

I've tanked and dps Kaz'rogal and never gotten mana drained in bear/cat forms. Will you be powershifting? That could be an issue, getting stuck in caster form with no mana.

◊ Malan · 05/20/08, 1:37 PM

The mark will be applied to you but you shouldn't take any dmg from it.

Panzerkin · 05/20/08, 1:57 PM