Feral Druid Megathread - Page 186

seminarca · 07/22/08, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

At what level?

At 70. It would be nice if someone in beta could confirm this (by doing the "before/after" dodge% comparisons removing items with Agi but no dodge rating with a 0/0/0 spec).

unitsinc · 07/22/08, 9:18 PM

Originally Posted by dagoose

I was wondering what would be the best route of me using 2 piece T4 and 4 piece T6. I am 8/8 T6 and also have 5 piece T4.

So I am using 2 - T4 and 3 - T6. If I drop my Nether Shadow Tunic and replace it with my T6 chest I will lose way too much hit. I also cannot drop shoulders or gloves (T4). I dont think it is worth it to drop cursed visions to use t6, also the rogues and hunters will be mad if I just ditch my cursed visions :P

Hit isn't that important for us. 4t6 will be a significant boost in DPS. I'd use the chest.

• Falk · 07/22/08, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

Changing the agility factors by too much would ruin the hybridization of Druids on multi-stage encounters (ie: Agility gives us dodge for stage 1 in bear form and crit for stage 2 in cat form). I don't believe that is their intention.

It scaled too well, and needed toning down.

Personally I'd be happy to be dodging less as a matter of design and have encounter tuning reflect that. Easier on healers, etc.

• sadris · 07/22/08, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Falk

It scaled too well, and needed toning down.

Personally I'd be happy to be dodging less as a matter of design and have encounter tuning reflect that. Easier on healers, etc.

A warrior in T6 has ~65% combined miss/parry/dodge rate; I am not sure what you mean when you state that it scaled to well. Tanks must have similar levels of avoidance in order for encounters to be designed to be tanked by the different classes.

seminarca · 07/22/08, 11:23 PM

I don't think he meant Agility scaled too well for Druids vs Warrior avoidance, but that avoidance in general scaled far too well for the general health of the game. Hence, Sunwell Radiance.

Coldturkey · 07/23/08, 12:16 AM

Nobody should really be jumping to any itemization conclusions about wotlk yet because we have yet to see the tier gear (which generally has all the extra tanking stats like increased armor) and there was a staff released with 700 armor on it.

unitsinc · 07/23/08, 12:26 AM

I didn't mean tro make it sound like "omg feral itemization is terribad. /wrist" More just pointing out an observation on the leather I've seen, not on any other slots(weapon, rings, neck, back, trink).

• Falk · 07/23/08, 2:18 AM

Originally Posted by seminarca

I don't think he meant Agility scaled too well for Druids vs Warrior avoidance, but that avoidance in general scaled far too well for the general health of the game. Hence, Sunwell Radiance.

Yup. "It" was a reference to avoidance.

Personally, I still feel that reducing the conversion rate is a partial fix, and doesn't address the underlying issue that avoidance (regardless of conversion rates) gets better and better the more you have, spiralling off into infinity.

At least though, we know Blizzard is aware of the issue since Sunwell Radiance was worked into Sunwell encounter's base design. We'll see how they work things out in WotLK, across tiers.

Sadirin · 07/23/08, 5:22 AM

With the same spec and the same gear a level 70 feral druid in WotLK will need around 40 agility for 1% crit and around 20 agility for 1% dodge. Since I didn´t replace any of my gear (T4/badge) around lvl 75, I lost over 20% crit and around 15% dodge during this five levels. I expect to loose around 30% crit and 20% dodge until lvl 80. With that I expect that the dodge/crit values of bears and cats at lvl 80 will stay the same as on lvl 70 (around 50% in high level raid gear), but with much higher AP, Hit and Expertise.

On the other side, untalented Bite crits now for over nine thousend (9300 to be specific).

Melthar · 07/23/08, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sadirin

With the same spec and the same gear a level 70 feral druid in WotLK will need around 40 agility for 1% crit and around 20 agility for 1% dodge. Since I didn´t replace any of my gear (T4/badge) around lvl 75, I lost over 20% crit and around 15% dodge during this five levels. I expect to loose around 30% crit and 20% dodge until lvl 80. With that I expect that the dodge/crit values of bears and cats at lvl 80 will stay the same as on lvl 70 (around 50% in high level raid gear), but with much higher AP, Hit and Expertise.

On the other side, untalented Bite crits now for over nine thousend (9300 to be specific).

Of note is that if those L70 figures scale up at the same rate to L70 for agi vs dodge rating, this will mean that agi is approximately as good for avoidance as dodge rating when buffed. (20 vs 18.9 with agi benefiting from kings and SotF)

Dbakes · 07/23/08, 9:13 AM

If this is really the wrong place for this, lemme know and I'll look some more for Rawr forums.

I got the Idol of the White Stag from Supremus last week, looked it up in Rawr, and was a bit bummed to see it's not even close to Everbloom Idol for cat dps. So I put it in the bank.

Playing around with bear gear in Rawr this morning though, I happen to notice that it ranks it as quite a bit better than Idol of Terror for tanking. I can see how this would be the case for threat generation, but Rawr gives the Idol of Terror no bonus for mitigation, even though the proc will increase my dodge percentage (by a good bit).

Is there some setting I'm missing in Rawr for this? Does Rawr not give it the mitigation bonus because is chance based proc? If that's the case, does it also not give a threat generation bonus for the added crit with the proc? What do other people think of these two idols for tanking?

Thanks in advance.

Fabinas · 07/23/08, 9:25 AM

Answered some pages ago from the Rawr developer himself, take some time to read threads before you post.
Sorry i cant link the post, am on slow dialup connection atm and it would take me more time to find and link than you, i am sure.

Yaelle · 07/23/08, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Dbakes

If this is really the wrong place for this, lemme know and I'll look some more for Rawr forums.

I got the Idol of the White Stag from Supremus last week, looked it up in Rawr, and was a bit bummed to see it's not even close to Everbloom Idol for cat dps. So I put it in the bank.

Playing around with bear gear in Rawr this morning though, I happen to notice that it ranks it as quite a bit better than Idol of Terror for tanking. I can see how this would be the case for threat generation, but Rawr gives the Idol of Terror no bonus for mitigation, even though the proc will increase my dodge percentage (by a good bit).

Is there some setting I'm missing in Rawr for this? Does Rawr not give it the mitigation bonus because is chance based proc? If that's the case, does it also not give a threat generation bonus for the added crit with the proc? What do other people think of these two idols for tanking?

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Astrylian

It's a proc. A proc with a very high uptime (~66-75%), but a proc none-the-less. It's also a proc that drastically changes the value of other gear. It's for that reason that we don't apply an averaged-out static value to it. 65agi, 75% of the time is *not* the same as 48.75agi, 100% of the time, since avoidance scales. You'll notice that we maintain that rule for procs throughout all of Rawr; if averaging it out is the same as its exact value, we average it out and put it on the item. If not, we make it a temp buff. (For example, +AP trinkets are averaged out since 1000ap 10% of the time *is* the same as 100ap 100% of the time, DPS-wise.)

We'd like to be able to correctly model it and find the actual uptime, and from there, the actual effect on avoidance it has, on average, and we'll do just that, when we have time. But for now... Come on, everyone knows you use Terror to tank with. It's not worth our time, it's the bear best idol, it's obvious.

Yeah I also thought I was having a Déj�* vu.

staticzero · 07/23/08, 10:08 PM

I want to put some effort into powershifting more often/more effectively. To that end I have been trying to think of ways in which I could better integrate it into my play style as well as ways to make myself more aware of when to do it. One thing that came to mind is that I would do well to have some sort of audible cue to alert me when I should shift. I tend to spend a lot of my visual attention watching what is going on around me and I feel watching my energy bar so intently as to not miss a chance to be rather inconvenient at best. However in general there isn't much in the way of sound that's taking my attention so I was thinking if there were a simple mod that made a clearcasting-like sound when my energy got down to powershifting range after using an ability, I might miss fewer opportunities to do it.

Does such a mod exist in any form? And in either case, does anyone know of any mods or have other recommendations to help maximize powershifting?

seminarca · 07/23/08, 10:12 PM

This has been discussed at great length, not only in this thread but also here:
[Feral Druid] Powershifting: macros, thresholds, mana management

beleg_strongbow · 07/24/08, 8:06 AM

Just a short Question:

which addon are you guys using to show dot/debuff uptime on the mobs. I have had FeralDebuffList but for some reason it doesn't show up anymore (even reinstalling didn't work). This addon was very efficient for it showed the actual debuffs - in nature enemy castbar you see the time remaining of your debuffs but it doesn't show if you missed one.

Does anybody know a small addon that shows actual feral debuffs on target besides feraldebufflist that also conciders misses/resists?

Dbakes · 07/24/08, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by beleg_strongbow

which addon are you guys using to show dot/debuff uptime on the mobs.

Not sure I'm reading your question right, but I use elkano's buff bars. With some configuration, it shows only the debuffs I've applied to a mob, and how much time until they expire.

beleg_strongbow · 07/24/08, 11:17 AM

oki I'll try this one

thx

Gruturistic · 07/24/08, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by beleg_strongbow

which addon are you guys using to show dot/debuff uptime on the mobs. I have had FeralDebuffList but for some reason it doesn't show up anymore (even reinstalling didn't work). This addon was very efficient for it showed the actual debuffs - in nature enemy castbar you see the time remaining of your debuffs but it doesn't show if you missed one.

Does anybody know a small addon that shows actual feral debuffs on target besides feraldebufflist that also conciders misses/resists?

I had the exact same issue with Feral Debuff List - a close look at its error messages and a quick googling lead me to this fix, which worked fine.

I've since replaced it with pDebuffList which also tracks Thunderclap, lock curses and Sunders, plus shows the total number of debuffs. Like FeralDebuffLists, it will tell you which of Demo Shout/Roar is up (or wether none is there).

Pajay · 07/24/08, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by beleg_strongbow

Just a short Question:

which addon are you guys using to show dot/debuff uptime on the mobs. I have had FeralDebuffList but for some reason it doesn't show up anymore (even reinstalling didn't work). This addon was very efficient for it showed the actual debuffs - in nature enemy castbar you see the time remaining of your debuffs but it doesn't show if you missed one.

Does anybody know a small addon that shows actual feral debuffs on target besides feraldebufflist that also conciders misses/resists?

I'm using Sorren's Timers, WoWInterface Downloads : Plug-Ins & Patches : Sorren's Timers (2.4) , pretty good addon.

Arboreous · 07/24/08, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gruturistic

I had the exact same issue with Feral Debuff List - a close look at its error messages and a quick googling lead me to this fix, which worked fine.

I've since replaced it with pDebuffList which also tracks Thunderclap, lock curses and Sunders, plus shows the total number of debuffs. Like FeralDebuffLists, it will tell you which of Demo Shout/Roar is up (or wether none is there).

pDebuffList was replaced by Demon, also on the wowace site. Works good the only complaint I have is that by default it is set to detect "Faerie Fire (Feral)" but NOT "Faerie Fire". So if a moonkin is in your raid keeping up FF it will look like he's not doing his job. You can fix this by removing "Faerie Fire(Feral)" from the list and adding "Faeire Fire" which detects both the normal and feral versions. Also I can't get it to detect Mangle but that's not a big deal as I rely on dotimer for this.

• Astrylian · 07/27/08, 5:58 PM

Beta 15 posted!

DOWNLOAD: Rawr - Release: Rawr b15

Recent Version History
- Added the Tree, RestoSham, DPSWarr (Arms-only for this release), Hunter (BM-only for this release), Tankadin, and HolyPriest models! These are our first versions of these models, so please report any bugs you find with them!
- Revamp of item availability mechanics: Items can be marked to allow regemming and restrict which enchants are available. Left click on diamond as before marks item to be available withot restrictions (regemming and all enchants), CTRL+click marks the item to be available for this specific gemming. By right clicking on the diamond it is possible to restrict which enchants are available (if there are any restrictions active this is indicated by a dot next to diamond). Optimizer has an option to override whether items that aren't specifically marked for regemming/reenchanting can be regemmed or reenchanted.
- The optimizer upgrade comparison chart will now display all slots used to achieve the displayed upgrade value in its tooltip, and has a contextual menu item on click to equip all items
- Significant performance improvements all around for calculations, especially in the Optimizer
- Fix for properly handling gems and socket bonuses with spell damage and healing, and for display gems with three stats
- Fixed a bug with encoding for armory lookups, which was breaking some KR character loads
- Fixed a bug with item selection popups where the highest rating is 0
- Now handles broken images on the armory gracefully
- [b]Lots more - See Page 23 for det[/quote] - Added the Tree, RestoSham, DPSWarr (Arms-only for this release), Hunter (BM-only for this release), Tankadin, and HolyPriest models! These are our first versions of these models, so please report any bugs you find with them!
- Revamp of item availability mechanics: Items can be marked to allow regemming and restrict which enchants are available. Left click on diamond as before marks item to be available withot restrictions (regemming and all enchants), CTRL+click marks the item to be available for this specific gemming. By right clicking on the diamond it is possible to restrict which enchants are available (if there are any restrictions active this is indicated by a dot next to diamond). Optimizer has an option to override whether items that aren't specifically marked for regemming/reenchanting can be regemmed or reenchanted.
- The optimizer upgrade comparison chart will now display all slots used to achieve the displayed upgrade value in its tooltip, and has a contextual menu item on click to equip all items
- Significant performance improvements all around for calculations, especially in the Optimizer
- Fix for properly handling gems and socket bonuses with spell damage and healing, and for display gems with three stats
- Fixed a bug with encoding for armory lookups, which was breaking some KR character loads
- Fixed a bug with item selection popups where the highest rating is 0
- Now handles broken images on the armory gracefully
- Added Batch Tools. These are still a work-in-progress, and are unstable, but the end goal is to be able to optimize a collection of characters (ie, your guild) at once. Feel free to poke around, but consider this feature incomplete at the moment, and be sure to save before using it.
- Rawr.Cat
- Fix for Braxxis' Staff not being relevant
- Rawr.Bear
- Fix for Braxxis' Staff not being relevant
- Fixes to threat generation, and included Swipe rotations

cana · 07/27/08, 10:34 PM

Yeah, new RAWR update, lovely

Btw, thanks for the brillant work on RAWR Astrylian.

Edit: Your signature needs an update =)
Edit2: Wrong thread maybe, but as for the Tree model, there's plenty of unnecessary feral stuff in there. And I'm missing the Shattered Sun Healer Necklace. Expect more edits here

Edit3: Again Tree model, it seems rather broken to me oO
I'll give you feedback elsewhere, its just too much Tree for the Feral Druid thread