vuche

Thanks, so if I understand right even with Idol of Terror high proc rate dps output is lower than just using Everbloom Idol?

 

Vykromond

Yes.

 

• Daboran

I'd rather have a tanking weapon upgrade in the new content to be honest rather than have to go back to Mount Hyjal for it.

 

Valerian

I believe in a solid DPS group the Idol of the Raven Goddess is now the superior piece (since its at 20 crit rating added) at least in terms of raid dps.

 

• Astrylian

Actually, I may have a better way to accurately find the value per agi...

It's brute force, though. First, get the overall rating for the current character. Then add 0.01 agi, until the overall rating changes. Then go back to 0, and start subtracting 0.01, until the overall rating changes. Then based on those two points at which the overall rating changes, such as -0.45agi and +0.52agi, find their difference (0.97agi), find the difference of the overall rating at +0.52 and at 0 (165, for example), and divide 165/0.97. The value of 1agi currently would be 170, and couldn't ever land on a value where it gets doubled.

Really brute force and inelegant, though.

EDIT: Nevermind. The period between each final agi varies, so that's still inaccurate. Sigh.

 

• Astrylian

Rawr Beta 11 posted!

DOWNLOAD: http://druid.wikispaces.com/space/sh...e/Rawr+b11.zip

Recent Version History
---------------
Beta 11:
* You can now change between Bear and Cat mode, and any other models, on the fly, using the new Model menu.
* All stats are now editable in the Item Editor, not just bear stats.
* Rawr has been updated for the 2.4 PTR, as of 2/15. Most of the new items have been added, and the idols have been changed to their new stats. Note that you shouldn't try to Refresh Item Data on a new item, as it'll just fail to find the item and timeout.
* Added accurate calculations for all the decent cat idols.
* There's now a checkbox on the Options tab to enable Metagem requirement detection. If you run into a situation where one item is ranked higher than another, and you think it should be the other way around, see if the first one helps you meet the metagem requirements, and the second one doesn't. Turn that option off if you like handling metagem requirements yourself, and it'll always count the metagem.
* Buffs now have tooltips in the charts.
* The most recently used model will be selected at startup. No more dialog asking what model you want to startup in.
* There's now a list of recently opened files in the File menu, so you can open your different gear sets and characters faster.
* The model system has been changed so that each model is its own DLL, meaning that models can be updated/added/removed seperately of Rawr itself.
* Fixed a few bugs on dual-monitor setups.
* Items can now have weapon properties (min/max damage, speed)
* In order to prepare Rawr for a wider variety of models, the item type/slot system has been revamped. You'll now notice that there are 2 more buttons on the main form, for Projectile and Projectile Bag, though nothing will fit in them for ferals. Same with the offhand.
* Added support for all races, though Rawr.Cat and Rawr.Bear only have stats for NE/Tauren, of course. This is in preparation for Rawr being used by other classes.
* Items with no stats relevant to the current model will be hidden from charts/dropdowns
* There are now several new buffs for cats: ExposeWeakness (which has a slider on the Options tab to control its AP value), and Bloodlust, Drums of Battle, and Drums of War (which have sliders on the Options tab to control their uptime %).
* Models can now define their own custom charts, which are now used by Cat to include Combat Table (White), Combat Table (Yellow) and Relative Stat Values, and by Bear to include Combat Table and Relative Stat Values. Note that due to rounding abormalities when working with small values of certain stats that get multiplies, the two Relative Stat Values charts aren't as informative as I'd like, yet; take their values with a large grain of salt, consider them alpha quality for now.
* You can resize the main form to give you more chart space, and more space for the tab control with calculation display, buffs, options, enchants.

 

Schnigges

Got the [Shard of Contempt] on the PTR, anyone know an updated addon to monitor the proccrate/uptime? Proccwatch & Uptimemeter don't work anymore. It pretty much seems straightforward though, procc immideatly within a few hits when pulling a mob and pretty much 45 seconds + time to proc afterwards.

 

Murwen

I'm kinda wondering why DPS enchants for head and shoulder slots are missing from the Cat model, is this something we could easily add ourselves?

 

• Astrylian

They are included, but it sounds like you're using an older EnchantCache.xml (and probably BuffCache.xml as well). Delete them Rawr will recreate them with its internal data which includes these and new items. Same for itemCache.xml if you want the new 2.4 items.


Also, if anyone sees ratings that don't 'look right', check if you've got Enforce Metagem Requirements turned on. That can cause a bit of confusion if you don't realize that a blue gem is listed as giving you more dps than a red gem because you need the blue gem to make your metagem work. I've updated the posted .zip to change that to off by default, to avoid that confusion.

 

Murwen

Ah, worked like a charm. Thanks

 

seminarca

Looks good. Just a small bug I noticed. It's showing me [Blade of Infamy] and [Blade of Savagery] as Off Hand options, even though we can't use swords. Also, more of a nuisance, but it took me a bit to realize "Idols" had been replaced with "Ranged" in the slot drop down menu, maybe it can detect class and rename the menu item appropriately. Good work as always.

 

ramenchef

Hmm, several issues. Whenever I go into edit an item, often it will erase the socket bonus. This frequently occurs when I duplicate and item to regem it in a certain way. Also, I believe it is overvaluing the rip idol or undervaluing the shred one. With a 50% yellow crit rate, 1.9 shreds per cycle, and 70% rips being 4cp it has the rip idol nudging out the shred idol.

Shred idol
1.9 shreds * 88dmg * 1.633 (extra dmg from crits)
yields 273.0376 extra damage a cycle

Rip idol
(((0.7* 4cp)+(0.3*5cp))*7dmg*6 ticks)*1.3 (mangle modifier)
yields 234.78 extra dmg a cycle

Sorry if this post is a bit offtopic.

 

• Astrylian

Hmm... I saw that socket bonus issue at one point, but thought we fixed it. I'll take a look.

Regarding the rip idol... That is indeed the correct math, unless you have 4T6, in which case it's got an extra * 1.15, which would make it almost the same damage as what you have for Everbloom there. For me, Everbloom comes out significantly higher. If you e-mail me your character (cnervig@hotmail.com), I'll take a close look at it.

 

ramenchef

Hmm, factoring in the +15% dmg, I still end up with 269.997 dmg, slightly below everbloom still. You know what though? I totally forgot to factor in misses and the crit rate is actually 49.55...% which could cause the discrepency between the two, as they are ranked quite similarly. Email will be sent shortly.
On a similar note, anyone think the rip idol will be nerfed? For a blue instance drop, it catches up to the everbloom one significantly at higher levels of gear.

 

Torpesh

I downloaded Rawr b11 (thanks Astrylian!) and have been playing around with it. Looks great, but I've seen a couple of things that didn't make sense to me:

- There were times when clicking the +20 agi food would cause the kitty points for items to go down. My thought was that this could only raise the kitty points for an item since it would add crit, scaling other stats on the item. Am I missing something here? I know that the rounding issue was brought up with 1 agi increments, but I wouldn't think that would apply here. The differences were fairly significant - about 60 points.

This didn't happen all the time. If you load my DPS gear (Torpesh on Khadgar, logged out in that atm and I'll try to do that for the next day) and select the MoTW (improved) checkboxes then you'll see that selecting the +20agi food takes the top [Insidious Bands] from 3609 to 3598. Other situations saw an even greater drop.


- The [Band of the Swift Paw] (22agi, 31sta, 21str, 2str socket bonus) with a defense gem is being ranked FAR ahead of my current [Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers] (22agi, 22str, 21crit, 29sta, 2res socket bonus) with a +8 agi gem. I removed all buffs and it's still ranked far ahead. Just doesn't seem possible to me that 1str > 21crit.

 

ramenchef

Did you have the meta gem requirement option enabled? That could be why the band of the swift paw is being ranked so high, because it fulfills 2 colors of the RED requirement.

 

• Astrylian

Took a look at the character you sent me. In that case, the Rip idol is better, because of the few # of shreds per cycle, and the fact that shred is affected by armor. If you enable Curse of Recklessness, and Everbloom is better.

 

• Astrylian

Ramenchef has the right idea about the 2nd question, and rounding really is the answer to your first question too.

Here's why, lets look at the Agility.
With no food buff, you currently have 609agi. Switch to Insidious Bands, and you've got 627agi, a gain of 18agi.
With the food buff, you have 630agi. Switch to Insidious Bands, and you've got 647agi, a gain of 17agi.

You've got more agi in the 2nd case, so each point of agi is worth slightly more, but you're also getting 1 less agi, so there's a slight decrease in value, due to the rounding.

I've gone through dozens of these sort of "huh... that doesn't look right..." situations, and it almost always comes out to Rawr being too accurate for what I expect.

 

Cainman

On the latest version I have of Voldin's spreadsheet whenever I change buffs related to agility my unbuffed dps numbers go down. I would think that the unbuffed dps numbers should stay constant no matter which buffs you select at the bottom of the page. Am I missing something?

 

Voldin

I'll take a look as I'm trying to update with the new stuff from the PTR. If you have any information about which specific buff you're talking about, let me know.

 

zimira

1. Hmm this might be an obvious thing you just cant do due some programming design, but shouldnt it be +1 stat added to the already buffed stats and not before buffing? (gonna assume thats not possible in your model for some reason)

2. How about those fake items, are they static? If not how about replacing the fake +1Agi with:
1,03*BoK AP and 1,03*BoK*22,1/25 crit rating

If they are static how about having 2 bars, one with a fake item with BoK, and one without.

3. And is it even worth calculating the +1 str, shouldnt it be 2,06*BoK AP?

Edit: was a bit to earlie when i had those bright ideas it seems ;-). For point 1 adding +1 unmodified of buffs would ofc not give the correct relation between stuff affected and stuff unaffected by buffs. I now realise both 1 and 2 comes back to that a char for instance cant have 645.3 Agi in your program it will have (as in Wow) 645. 3 should be true though.

I guess toskk uses another method for determening the relative values since his str to AP ration pretty much is 2,06*BoK at all times (i might be on deep water, but i itnhk i read you use his modell as base for your cat_model)

 

junoon

In Rawr Beta 11 the item Shoulderpads of Vehemence has 2 red sockets on it with a 3 agility socket bonus while in all the screenshots I have seen of those shoulders there are no sockets whatsoever.

 

Torpesh

If the point is to see how one item or enchant or gem will do compared to another than you really want to use prebuff stats since the stats on the item/enchant/gem will be subject to those buffs.